The History of the Blue Beetle Part 1

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Are we ready? [00:00:01] Speaker B: Ready when you are, yes. [00:00:04] Speaker A: Start recording, and then I'll do some more claps to sync us up. [00:00:07] Speaker C: Cool. [00:00:08] Speaker D: I don't know how they're going to get picked up on here, but. Okay, whatever. I'll yell clap really loud. [00:00:16] Speaker A: It'll be synced up with the blue recording. [00:00:20] Speaker C: Sure. [00:00:20] Speaker A: So it'll be synced up with the cleave clean feed recording, and the clean feed recording will sync up with your individual recording. So we can just use that as a buffer. [00:00:32] Speaker C: Cool. Just trust me. [00:00:35] Speaker A: It works. Just clap. [00:00:36] Speaker B: I don't understand a single thing. [00:00:38] Speaker D: I barely got it, and I think I know where he's going with it, but we'll see what happens. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I just have to. [00:00:46] Speaker C: No. Yeah. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Did you clap yet? [00:00:50] Speaker B: I'm the talent. [00:00:52] Speaker C: Oh. [00:00:52] Speaker A: Are you recording yet? Okay, now clap. [00:00:55] Speaker D: No, you only told me once. I'm only doing once. [00:00:57] Speaker A: Three more times. [00:00:58] Speaker D: It's all getting paid for. You didn't pay me enough. [00:01:00] Speaker A: But two more claps. [00:01:01] Speaker D: This is not. [00:01:02] Speaker B: But you have to say clap after each one again. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Clap, clap. [00:01:07] Speaker C: Yeah, just like that. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Sound like an unused person. [00:01:13] Speaker C: Go on, clap, clap. [00:01:18] Speaker A: You can't see my face, but I'm doing a face. [00:01:21] Speaker B: He's doing a face. This is a podcast. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Oh, God. I'm sorry, Dave. [00:01:26] Speaker D: I'm so sorry. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Thank you. Okay, so I'm going to sync your claps up to the main clean feed, everyone audio, and then I'll sync my claps. Clap, clap, clap, clap up with the audio here. And then. [00:01:42] Speaker D: Good luck, future Bryce. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Thanks, future. Good job, future Bryce. Okay, we're going to start recording. Hey, everybody, it's Bryce Rikens, and this is my co host way over at home. [00:02:27] Speaker D: Hey, that's me. I'm O'Brien. Wait, we're not doing Mario, are we? [00:02:31] Speaker A: No, we're not doing. [00:02:32] Speaker C: Damn it. That was a good. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Although I heard a really funny thing about Mario today, that if you take out the enthusiasm, he just sounds japanese. [00:02:39] Speaker D: Wait, of which, Mario, you take out. [00:02:41] Speaker A: The it's a me, Yamario. And you just make it kind of monotonous. It's like. It's a. [00:02:48] Speaker C: Go. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Let's go. It does sound awkward japanese. I also have heard that the word it'sumi actually means superb. So he's not really saying it's a me Mario. He's just saying super Mario. Superb Mario. Superb Mario. He turns Orange. Anyway, this is not a podcast about Mario. That's my favorite new intro thing we're doing where we talk about something completely unrelated. [00:03:12] Speaker C: Today. [00:03:12] Speaker A: We're talking about a different movie that's coming out that will hopefully be as good and as enjoyable as Mario was. We shall see, because DC's track record lately has been a little bit sad. But today we are talking about blue Beetle because nobody seems to know anything about blue Beetle except for Dave, which is why we have. Drumroll. [00:03:32] Speaker C: Dave. Hey. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Here I am with jazz hands. [00:03:37] Speaker D: I can't see the jazz hands. [00:03:39] Speaker C: Hello. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Thanks for having me on. [00:03:40] Speaker A: We're happy you're here. [00:03:42] Speaker D: You're at his house. [00:03:43] Speaker A: I am recording this at Dave's house. So I'm happy to be here and happy to have you here. [00:03:50] Speaker D: And I'm happy to be here. [00:03:51] Speaker A: Thank you. Welcome. Thank you for joining me in my mobile podcast studio in your house. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Thank you for joining me at your house. [00:03:59] Speaker A: It was lovely. I will take that Dr. Pepper in a moment. So today we're talking about the blue beetle because people don't actually know very much about the blue beetle. My assumption about the blue beetle was that it was going to be like a golden age hero or at best, a late golden age hero from, like, the early fifty s maybe. Brian, what did you think about. What did you think the blue beetle came from? Just, like, spitballing. You're like, oh, yeah, that one guy who hangs out with Mr. Gold. [00:04:25] Speaker D: I didn't even know that. I know like zero about blue Beetle. So I saw the trailer come out and the poster, it's like, oh, that's cool. I didn't know that was even a thing. Or like, I knew the character was a thing, but I didn't know anything about him. And then I saw the movie trailer and posters, like, oh, I didn't realize they were even doing that. But okay, cool, whatever. Because I'm usually about superhero movies in general, even. Again, DC's track record, a little over the. But, um, yeah, I was like, okay, cool, I'll look into this or I won't, or, I don't know, whatever. I'll get around to it, or I won't, whatever. That's kind of where I'm at right now. [00:05:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. For those of you who don't know. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Well, long time may recall rule number four in the Ziggler playbook, which is, I don't see trailers for movies that I know I'm going to see. I didn't realize I was getting into a blue Beetle trailer, though somehow I saw the Warner brothers like Shield at the beginning of the trailer, but I guess I missed the DC tag. So I thought this was just some boner teen comedy. And then they get to Jaime's house, and they pronounce it Jaime or Jane. Okay, to Jaime's house. And he opens up the box, and it's the scarab. And I'm like, oh, I'm watching a blue beetle trailer. Son of a bitch. Well, okay. And I liked it. I'm looking forward to it. [00:05:46] Speaker A: Coming into this before. Mean, obviously, Brian has said that he knew very little about it. My knowledge of the blue Beetle is pretty much limited to if he showed up in a major crisis book that I read, which I don't recall, and him being on a cover with Booster gold, which I only know because I was working in a comic book shop. So I was seeing these books as they were coming out, that kind of thing. Were you a fan of blue Beetle before? I want to say a decent sized fan. That seems weird, but are you a fan? [00:06:21] Speaker B: I'm very familiar with the blue Beetle, mostly from the kind of late silver Age into the bronze Age, so late 60s into the. With Ted cord, basically the Steve Ditko revamp. [00:06:36] Speaker A: Okay. [00:06:37] Speaker B: Which we'll touch on, go through this. And I was a big fan in Justice League, the post crisis Justice League. So where he first gets teamed up with Booster Gold, and they are very much the comedy relief duo for that era of they are con men isn't exactly the way I would put it, but Booster, for those of you who don't know, Booster is a time traveling hero. Booster gold from the 25th century who steals a time machine, comes back to the 20th century to become a superhero and make a lot of money. And so everything that he does is motivated by money. Money. [00:07:22] Speaker A: Let's make money. [00:07:23] Speaker B: This is a podcast, and you can't see me doing the money thing with my hand. [00:07:28] Speaker A: It's like he's a tiny crab. [00:07:30] Speaker B: Classic Mrs. France, pinching them pennies till they squeal. But throughout the Justice League stuff, Justice League, Justice League international, booster and Beetle are very much, like I said, played for comedy relief until they're not. But we can get to that when we get to that point. [00:07:50] Speaker C: Okay. [00:07:51] Speaker B: To make a short answer, long. I'm a longtime fan of the blue Beetle. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Of the blue Beetle. Got it. [00:07:58] Speaker C: Cool. [00:07:58] Speaker A: So, yeah, I guess let's begin at the beginning. Well, let's jump before Jaime. [00:08:05] Speaker D: How far the beginning? [00:08:06] Speaker A: Because I'm sure that. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Very close to the beginning. Very close to the beginning. Really? [00:08:13] Speaker A: Okay, well, let's go. [00:08:14] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:15] Speaker B: We got to go back to the golden age of comics is very much like the Wild west. There's an energy and a lawlessness to it. Not strictly in the straightforward definition of lawless, but, I mean, everybody's out looking for the quick know. And there's a guy named Victor Fox who started a comic company called Fox Comics. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Got it. [00:08:42] Speaker B: I'm sure that's hard. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Fox sounds like a comic book character on the record. [00:08:46] Speaker B: And he decided he was going to get into comics, start publishing comics. He had done some astrology magazines before. [00:08:54] Speaker A: That, so a very reputable man. [00:08:56] Speaker B: Yes, very reputable. And he contracted with the Eisner and Iger studio for content. Eisner and Iger was, I mean, legendary even back then. Will Eisner, creator of the. They had, and they had everybody who was anybody at one point or another in the golden age worked for Eisner and Iger at some point. Lou Fine, Mort Mesken, Bob Kane, Jack Kirby, Nick Cardi, all those guys all did time at Eisen and Iger. Fox, for all of his faults, and he had plenty, which, many of which we'll touch on as we go through here. But he could spot a trend. And when DC strikes it big with Superman and in action comics in 1938, Fox was like, ooh, superheroes. Superheroes. That's going to be a thing. And so he's the second guy out of the gate. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Second guy out of the gate. [00:09:56] Speaker B: The second guy. [00:09:57] Speaker C: Superman. [00:09:57] Speaker B: And then Mr. Fox here. Yeah. So, March 1939, Wonder Comics number one hits the stands. Okay, action Comics is up to issue ten. At this point. Wonder Comics stars Wonder man. [00:10:11] Speaker C: Wow. [00:10:11] Speaker B: And the characters are so similar that detective comics, the parent company of Superman, sues Fox for infringing on the copyright. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Oh, shoot. [00:10:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:24] Speaker B: And Fox was found guilty. Yeah, well, the judge said look, and lays out all the similarities. Says, look. The main difference seems to be that Superman wears blue and Wonder man wears red. That's the big difference that I can so Fox like, I didn't like that. And by this point of, Fox is, is already getting a reputation for stiffing his creators on, you know, that was the big reason that Eisner and Iger stopped working for him. [00:11:00] Speaker A: Good for them. [00:11:02] Speaker B: But August 1939, we get mystery men comics number one. And that features a ton of new characters, including, for our purposes, rookie policeman Dan Garrett, spelled with one t. That's going to become important later. And Dan is the blue beetle. Now, in this first issue, he dresses in a blue double breasted suit, blue fedora goggles, like the Green Hornet. It's funny you mentioned that. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Oh, God. [00:11:33] Speaker D: So he's the blue Hornet. [00:11:35] Speaker A: No, man, it's not the same. [00:11:38] Speaker B: It's funny because. [00:11:41] Speaker A: And that song goes. [00:11:44] Speaker B: Exactly like that. By the time mystery men comics number one hits the stand. That's right around the time that the verdict on the copyright case had come in. And so between mystery man comics number one and number two, beatles costume has changed. So he gets away from the suit and into blue leggings with a blue chain mail shirt with a cowl. So it becomes the tick, kind of with yellow gloves this time he got there first. Without the antler. Right, exactly. Without the antennas. [00:12:29] Speaker D: You're picking up what I'm putting down. [00:12:30] Speaker B: So that's when he starts to look more superhero, less pulp adventurer. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Got it. [00:12:37] Speaker C: Gotcha. [00:12:38] Speaker B: I want to kind of pause here in terms of the narrative to kind of touch on the issue of creatorship. So all the sources that I've looked at seem to suggest that will Eisner kind of did the initial design because he did a lot of the initial designs for these characters, for Fox and then handed them off to Iger, who would do a bunch of the writing. And then they just go down the row in the bullpen and here's your four page story. Here's your five page story and so on. There's some debate over the years over who kind of did the most of the heavy lifting in terms of the creation of the blue beetle. Chuck Qudera, who co created Blackhawk, which we might see, we've seen in some of the cartoons, the World War II pilot, the team in the black planes and all that, claimed to have co created the blue beetle. But the timeline stuff doesn't quite match up well because at the time, nobody was really paying attention to this stuff because a nobody expected comics to last. Remember, they weren't collected at the time. [00:13:42] Speaker A: You rolled up and put in the back of your pocket. [00:13:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:45] Speaker B: Or traded with the kid down the block or cut out the coupons and draw mustaches on Lois Lane and stuff like that. And being a comics creator, in a lot of ways, it wasn't viewed as, like, respectable art. If you were a comic strip artist, like, in a newspaper strip, that was respectable. That's where the money was. Yeah, that's where the money was. Especially if you had, like, a Sunday strip. If you were like a Hal foster with Prince Valiant or an Alex Raymond with a flash Gordon, that's where the money was. Or even doing daily strips. But, like, comic books, the other guy who has kind of staked his claim, this guy named Charles Wochkowski, he changed his name to Charles Nicholas because in part because that was the byline that was being used on the Blue Beetle comics. And the evidence seems to be more supportive of his claim than the. [00:14:46] Speaker A: And which one's. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Quadra Qudera was the guy who co created Blackhawks. [00:14:49] Speaker A: Blackhawks, I'm following. [00:14:51] Speaker C: Okay. [00:14:52] Speaker B: But, yeah, I want to throw that in there before we get too far afield. And the other thing, as. As you see with Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster and Superman, there's not really any loyalty from the publisher once they get the rights to your. [00:15:09] Speaker D: It's kind of. That's kind of how it is, even. [00:15:16] Speaker B: I mean, there's a reason that spawn is not a Marvel character. [00:15:20] Speaker A: And that reason. [00:15:22] Speaker B: Well, besides the fact character sucks. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Oh, no, sorry. [00:15:29] Speaker B: That's a whole different podcast, know, because McFarlane was. I will say this. McFarlane is an outstanding. And he recognized after watching Venom kind of blow up. He recognized in a good way or in a bad way, venom, the venom comic. Venom comic character blows up huge. In a good way podcast. [00:15:57] Speaker A: You sort of made this mushroom cloud shape with your hands, but that could have easily been that. It just all went to crap. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Well, I mean, Venom is obviously a very popular character. Shitty movies about. Oh, but we haven't released that episode yet. Hashtag, release the Venom episode. Anyway, thank you all. Doesn't, you know, McFarlane, Eric Larson, Rob Liefeld, Jim Lee. All these guys had tons of concepts in their back pocket that they weren't going to give Marvel or DC because. [00:16:32] Speaker D: They knew how the game was. [00:16:33] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:16:34] Speaker B: They wanted to own their characters. But I've allowed myself to get off topic. [00:16:40] Speaker D: No, because it's kind of important to. [00:16:41] Speaker B: The whole kind of setting the scene. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Long standing tradition of, like, who the heck are these characters created by? And I guess we'll see at the end credits what they know. Blue Beetle, created by. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Well, I'm going to be curious to see if Quadra or Nicholas gets a special. Thanks. I'm sure at least one of them will. I'm curious as to who or both. [00:17:04] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:17:05] Speaker B: Let's see where was. Oh, yeah. So we had talked about the change in costume. Fun fact. Blue Beetle was the third character to star in his own series. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Who was the second? [00:17:18] Speaker C: Hang on. [00:17:19] Speaker B: But only the second with the number one issue. [00:17:22] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Okay, so here's how it goes. Superman number one had come out in September of 1939. And keep in mind, these are cover dates. Cover dates are typically two to three months before the time they actually hit the stand to increase the amount of time that they're available on the newsstands. So Superman number one cover dated September 1939, comes out. Actually, in July 19. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Oh, the opposite of what we have right now. [00:17:50] Speaker C: Right. [00:17:51] Speaker B: Okay, so then, amazing man number five. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Amazing man. How did I forget about. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Course. Amazing man also cover dated September 1939. [00:18:02] Speaker A: Where's Wonder man? Does Wonder Man. [00:18:03] Speaker B: Wonder man was. [00:18:05] Speaker A: But didn't he have an issue? [00:18:06] Speaker B: Didn't he exist in Wonder comics? [00:18:09] Speaker A: But he didn't have a self title. [00:18:11] Speaker B: It wasn't his own. [00:18:11] Speaker A: Not his own issue. [00:18:12] Speaker B: And then blue Beetle number one, winter 1930, 919 40. So probably December comes out October, September, October. [00:18:23] Speaker A: So just to be clear, this Wonder. [00:18:25] Speaker B: Man he created ceases to exist until after one issue. [00:18:29] Speaker A: After one issue. So he is not. [00:18:31] Speaker B: There's no one till. There's no asking if he's related to the Marvel Wonder man. [00:18:38] Speaker A: He's not related to that at all. [00:18:39] Speaker C: No. Okay. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Not in the OD thing. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Wonder Man. Wonder man is a footnote in comics history. [00:18:46] Speaker A: Poor Wonder man. [00:18:48] Speaker D: Oh, wow. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Superman. Okay, so Wonder man. And then the same thing with mystery men. That's not the same as mystery men. There wasn't the movie, the movie or anything like that? [00:19:01] Speaker C: Oh, no. [00:19:02] Speaker A: This is some sort of secret comic that I had no idea existed. [00:19:05] Speaker C: No. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Okay, just to be clear. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Well, the mystery men movie was based on a comic, not this comic. [00:19:12] Speaker A: There's multiple ones. [00:19:13] Speaker C: Right? [00:19:13] Speaker A: Multiple mystery men. But both on the early end are lost. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Well, I mean, some of the characters from mystery Men continued. I mean, the flame was one of Fox Comics'big. Characters, the blue Beetle, obviously, Samson. Those were what Fox considered to be his big three characters. [00:19:38] Speaker A: Well, that's cool. [00:19:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:40] Speaker B: In fact, at one point, they do a book called the big three. And of course, they don't interact in the comic at all. Comics at this point are very much anthology products, unlike today, where you've got a single story for 25 pages. For 25 pages or however, although the current run on action comic is an anthology book. [00:20:08] Speaker C: Kind of interesting. [00:20:09] Speaker B: I've been loving it. But we'll come to that at the end when you ask me what I've been reading. Okay, spoilers, yes. Spoilers, indeed. So by 1940, here's the thing. [00:20:21] Speaker A: You guys are all enjoying this because we're a year in. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Oh, don't worry. Things are going to pick up. Don't worry. So 1940, Fox was the third largest publisher in comics. Okay? Now, here's what's going to blow your mind. Ready for this? DC was number one with 86 comics for the year. [00:20:43] Speaker C: Wow. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Not series, just 86 individual issues. [00:20:48] Speaker C: Wow. [00:20:49] Speaker B: They have almost that in a month today. [00:20:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:54] Speaker B: Marvel has more than that take place in Gotham. [00:20:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:58] Speaker A: Half of them are Batman and a third of them are new number ones, but they're just the same issue. [00:21:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:06] Speaker A: Holden, podcast. [00:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Dell Comics was the second largest publisher. They were publishing things like Mickey Mouse, Uncle Scrooge, Bugs Bunny, things like that. [00:21:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:17] Speaker B: And then Fox, with 67 comics, that's not far behind. No, it's not at all. But again, we're going to see that Fox ends up in. Eventually he's going to end up in bankruptcy because he's not paying any shit. I know Fox regularly imitates DC. In fact, he gets sued in 1942 over his characters the Lynx and Blackie the mystery boy. [00:21:49] Speaker D: Now, God. [00:21:51] Speaker B: Now, when I told Charlote this, she said, and I'm sure most of you listening had a similar thought, I will tell you, blackie's a white kid. [00:22:01] Speaker A: Oh. But it's okay because of blackface. [00:22:04] Speaker B: He's got black hair. [00:22:06] Speaker A: Is that really his. [00:22:08] Speaker B: That's really his name. Blackie the mystery. [00:22:10] Speaker C: Oh, God. [00:22:10] Speaker A: But is that really what made him decide this? Like, he has black hair and so they're like, yeah, we'll call him Blackie. [00:22:16] Speaker B: I assume haven't. I know that's incredibly stupid, but I. [00:22:23] Speaker A: See why he's not in the big three. [00:22:24] Speaker B: The thing that I find interesting is that Blackie's real name is Phil. No last name. [00:22:31] Speaker A: It's just Phil. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Just Phil. No last name. [00:22:35] Speaker A: Just Phil. [00:22:36] Speaker C: Phil. [00:22:36] Speaker A: Well, that's the mystery. Who's that kid with a black hair? [00:22:41] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:22:42] Speaker A: Who's called Black? [00:22:43] Speaker B: We only know Phil, you heartless bastard. He was an orphan. [00:22:51] Speaker A: You almost had me. I sat there, twisted a last name. [00:22:57] Speaker B: I mean, it's a verb, but it's a last name. Yeah, we got like Jon Snow and shit, right? [00:23:04] Speaker A: Jon Snow, yeah, he's actually, if you're. [00:23:07] Speaker D: Born, know the north. [00:23:09] Speaker B: The dark, in the dark. So Victor Fox was intent on catching up with DC, surpassing DC, driving DC out of business. [00:23:20] Speaker A: This is a vendetta at this point. [00:23:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. And we get the blue Beetle newspaper strip. [00:23:27] Speaker C: Cool. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Oh, he's gone big leagues. [00:23:29] Speaker C: Yes. [00:23:30] Speaker B: So we get both a Sunday and a daily. Let's talk about the Sunday first. Well, because you frequently have. Not both, right. [00:23:41] Speaker A: You get one or the other in all the cases. Unless you're Charles Schultz. [00:23:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:44] Speaker B: So the Sunday strip premieres January 7, 1940, and it's part of a package deal, almost like another little comic book. It's four pages, it's eight strips, eight stories, but it's like repackaged comic pages side by side. So if this is my. This is the podcast. And I know you guys can't see it, but if I'm holding my paper, this is portrait hot dog style or hamburger style? Hot dog. [00:24:23] Speaker C: Noted. [00:24:23] Speaker B: But page one, page two. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Got it. Page one and page two are both jammed in. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Jammed in on the same top half of the page. [00:24:32] Speaker C: Okay. [00:24:32] Speaker A: So we jammed those both in. [00:24:35] Speaker B: Only very few papers carried it. I'm sure this comes as a big shock. The one that we really know is the Springfield Republican from Springfield, Massachusetts. [00:24:45] Speaker A: That's Springfield. Not to be confused with all of the other. [00:24:48] Speaker D: Yeah, right. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Not to be confused with. [00:24:53] Speaker A: The one in every other state. [00:24:57] Speaker B: So two pages a week, side by side, but each week, yeah, you get the next two pages, but at the top of that first page, half page splash. Okay, so page one, page two. Next Sunday, you get page three and page four, but the top two rows of panels on page three gone because you got that half page splash. [00:25:23] Speaker A: So you're just missing a chunk of the story. [00:25:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:25] Speaker B: So it really jacks up the internal continuity of your. [00:25:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:25:30] Speaker C: Cool. But not. [00:25:33] Speaker B: And you know, Fox because he was trying to save money on this project, basically reprints. I know. Mystery men number. Know, the blue Beetle story from that. And then skips number two and does three and four. [00:25:48] Speaker C: Shit. [00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:25:51] Speaker A: Number two explains when he changes his outfit. [00:25:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Well, and so not only are you getting a jacked up continuity between the storylines, you're also getting that jacked up continuity within the story because you got half a page missing. The Republican drops the Sunday strip in July, July 11, phone calls of kids. [00:26:12] Speaker C: Being like, I don't know what's going on. [00:26:14] Speaker B: Yeah, kind of. Well, not just the kids. Even adults were reading the funniest. [00:26:18] Speaker C: All right. Yeah. [00:26:19] Speaker B: Meanwhile, on the daily side, the Superman daily starts January 16, 1939. Really early. Really early. It was April. Wait, eight months after action comics number one. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Action comics number one is 38 or 39? [00:26:39] Speaker B: April 30 eigth is 38. [00:26:41] Speaker C: Okay. Yes. [00:26:42] Speaker B: So January 16, 1939, we get the Superman comic strip, the Daily. Okay, the blue Beetle starts January eigth, 1940. So the hot second Fox sees Superman strip, he's like, I got to get me one of them. I got to get me one of them. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Keeping up with the Jones. [00:27:00] Speaker B: I got to get me one. Exactly. Now, the daily strip we know was carried by exactly one paper, the Boston evening transcript only in the evening newspaper. [00:27:14] Speaker D: Yes, on the east coast. [00:27:16] Speaker A: On the east coast. [00:27:18] Speaker B: One newspaper on the east coast. [00:27:20] Speaker C: Wow. [00:27:20] Speaker B: And in a supreme bit of irony, they dropped the Superman strip for the blue. [00:27:28] Speaker A: Superman's not going to get that big. [00:27:30] Speaker B: Well, here's the thing. They had a little statement that they ran with the strip. Allow me to read it for you. It's short. Introducing the blue beetle. The transcript presents today to its comic strip devotees, the blue beetle. It appears for the first time in the place of honor at our right. The blue beetle, let it be known, accords with the latest trend in comic strips. In presenting the incredible adventures of an individual of extraordinary powers. But it works, we believe, a definite artistic advance in this category of strips. In that it makes these superhuman feats more nearly within the realm of common laws of physics, anatomy, etc. In other words, it makes incredibility more credible with the ingenuity of a Jules Verne, an H. G. Wells or a Jonathan swift. With introducing the blue beetle with our right hand, we wave a measuredly regretful farewell to Superman with our left. [00:28:30] Speaker A: Hand. [00:28:32] Speaker B: The escapades of Superman during the months of his incumbency here. Have often strained our sense of logic. And many of our readers have indicated a similar feeling. That the cards were too definitely stacked in favor of Superman. [00:28:45] Speaker A: The first to say it. [00:28:48] Speaker B: So there's that now. [00:28:50] Speaker D: Too overpowered. I don't believe it. [00:28:55] Speaker A: Tldr zoom in too op. So we can put in. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Right, basically. Now, fun fact. Jack Kirby was the original artist on strip. [00:29:05] Speaker C: No shit. [00:29:07] Speaker B: On the blue Beetle comics. [00:29:08] Speaker C: Oh, that's cool. [00:29:09] Speaker A: Quick question. You told me months ago in a text that Superman did not start flying until the Fleischman cartoons. Fleischer cartoons? [00:29:19] Speaker B: The Fleischer brothers cartoons. Fleischer brothers, that's correct. [00:29:21] Speaker A: They were the ones who moved him from jumping, leaping, tall buildings. [00:29:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Because it was easier for them to animate him flying than was to animate him jumping. [00:29:29] Speaker A: These guys felt he was too overpowered when he was still jumping. [00:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty much. [00:29:35] Speaker A: Dude isn't even fly yet. [00:29:37] Speaker B: No. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Half of all superheroes fly right now. [00:29:39] Speaker B: Just about. [00:29:40] Speaker A: Yeah, that's crazy. They're like, this is too wild for us. This is too crazy. [00:29:44] Speaker B: This is too hard to believe. [00:29:46] Speaker D: How they switched him to flying just to make animation easier. What did I totally get? And especially at the time, also, the. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Fleischer brothers cartoons are gorgeous. [00:29:55] Speaker D: The animation is so good. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Yes, they are beautiful. [00:29:58] Speaker A: I think it's on ones. I think it's like 24 frames a second kind of stuff. It's very smooth. But, yeah, Superman flies because it was easier there. But somehow that eventually gets into the comic continuity. And somewhere there was some guy who, much like us, when we complain about the MCU bothering or like, infecting the Marvel comics there was some guy being like, Superman doesn't even fly. He only flies in the cartoon. It's dumb that they're adding that to the comics now. And everyone else is like, just give us your lunch. [00:30:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:31] Speaker B: So the Boston evening transcript is the one paper. [00:30:36] Speaker A: Love, Victor Fox. He's the best. He didn't pay us at all to write all these nice things about this and all these mean things about DC. [00:30:45] Speaker B: Well, apparently the offices of the evening transcript were just a few blocks away from the official corporate address of Fox comics. So draw your own conclusions. [00:31:00] Speaker A: How about that? [00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah, so like I said, jack Kirby is the original artist for the comic strip, and he's got this really cool kind of crime comic going until March 9 when he was out. Yeah, last long. Yeah, well, so the guy who follows him, Lewis Casanueva, takes over the strip and it kind of veers back into the goofy superhero stuff. And even then, the continuity kind of skips and jumps. Like we expect a comic strip to have internal continuity. If I'm reading, I don't know, Luann in my local paper, I do love Luann. And Greg Evans is super nice. [00:31:46] Speaker A: He's such a nice. [00:31:48] Speaker B: He's our neighbor at Comic Con. [00:31:49] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. Bryce always ends up finding him at the cons. [00:31:53] Speaker B: Well, he's not hard to find because he's always at the national cartoon society. [00:31:56] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Under a giant picture of Luann. [00:31:58] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:58] Speaker A: I have two signed pictures of. [00:32:00] Speaker C: Yeah, nice. [00:32:01] Speaker A: One of them is from Bridget, and I totally forgot to bring it home. [00:32:04] Speaker C: Whoops. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Clown shoes. Bridget, if you're listening, smack them around. But if I'm reading Luann in my local paper and Luann and Gunther are fighting in the last panel of Tuesday's strip, I'm going to expect Wednesday to pick up with either them still fighting or them realizing that their fight is not worthwhile and making up for, like. [00:32:31] Speaker A: A radio serial or something. [00:32:33] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:32:34] Speaker B: Whereas with the blue beetle, it wasn't happening like that. Not even in the daily, not even in the boy. [00:32:41] Speaker A: But, you know, Superman was jumping too high and that was hard for people to follow. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Yes. Right. And over the run of the comic strip, the blue beetle gained superpowers, character growth. [00:32:52] Speaker A: All right, so who is the blue beetle at this point? [00:32:54] Speaker B: What's his name? Dan Garrett. [00:32:56] Speaker A: Dan Garrett. [00:32:57] Speaker B: One t. Okay, one t. Yep, got it. One t. Rookie policeman. And apparently he was terrible at being a policeman because he was a rookie for years and years and years and years. [00:33:07] Speaker C: Fun. [00:33:08] Speaker B: The daily strip gets dropped November 26, 1940. So it lasts about eleven months. [00:33:16] Speaker A: Okay, slightly better than that. [00:33:17] Speaker D: One issue. [00:33:18] Speaker A: And what's their statement for that one. [00:33:20] Speaker B: Right now, the other thing. Radio show. [00:33:25] Speaker A: Radio show. [00:33:26] Speaker B: Radio show. Superman radio show starts February twelveth, 1940 on the mutual radio network. And a lot of the things that we consider to be essential parts of the Superman mythos show up for the first time in the radio show. Kryptonite. Perry White. Perry White, yes. The newspaper becomes the Daily Planet instead of the daily Star. It was something else. Oh, the first Batman, Robin and Superman team up is in the radio show. [00:33:55] Speaker C: Oh, cool. [00:33:56] Speaker D: Nice. [00:33:57] Speaker B: The Blue Beetle radio show, though, starts May 15, 1940. So just a couple of months difference there. Enough with the Joneses, right? But it's syndicated. Superman's on out Fox. Well, kind of. I mean, it relies on a lot of word of mouth. A lot of people. Hey, I want to hear the show. Blah, blah, blah. The first actor to play the blue Beetle was Frank Lovejoy. [00:34:24] Speaker A: Who's that? [00:34:25] Speaker B: He was popular in the early days in radio and some of the early days of tv. He had a minor movie career going. Very enthusiastic. But he plays the blue beetle very much like a cross between the shadow and the Green Hornet. He's cackling at the prospect of throwing crooks off of. Yeah, yeah, okay. He was your fuck around and find out. Hell, yeah. [00:34:50] Speaker D: I'm here for this. [00:34:52] Speaker B: Yeah, kind of like that. And he lasted the first four episodes, presumably because Fox wasn't paying even at this point. My research kind of veers into the radio world just a little bit. And apparently, even in radio circles, Fox was known as a notorious cheapskate. Not paying what he owes, et cetera, et cetera. [00:35:17] Speaker A: I don't believe his actual name was Victor Fox. It sounds like a pseudonym. Sounds like he's, like, hiding from other people. [00:35:25] Speaker B: He hasn't paid other creditors. [00:35:26] Speaker D: Hiding from the man. [00:35:27] Speaker B: That's right. So blue Beetle number two for the entire rest of the series. We don't know. [00:35:35] Speaker A: We don't know. [00:35:36] Speaker B: We don't know. Nobody else in the cast has any credits. [00:35:41] Speaker C: What? [00:35:41] Speaker B: They're not mentioned on the show broadcast. And you can listen to the radio episodes online. You can find them online, like Internet archive, maybe even YouTube. [00:35:51] Speaker C: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Cool. [00:35:52] Speaker B: They're out there. And there's no cast list. There's no credits. [00:35:58] Speaker C: Wow. [00:35:59] Speaker B: I know. [00:36:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the world of low budget creators. [00:36:03] Speaker B: Right. So beetle number two starts with the May 29 episode. They're doing twice a week. Broadcast twice a week. And remember, these aren't. Well, you know, I was going to say these aren't recorded in advance. I guess they must have been if they were syndicated. But I don't know that that's something they were doing at the time. [00:36:21] Speaker D: Yeah, or if they had a different syndication process. [00:36:24] Speaker A: This is why you're the comic expert. [00:36:26] Speaker B: Not the radio expert. Yeah, sure. [00:36:28] Speaker A: But I will say this is like the third time we've talked about something that involved radio plays. [00:36:34] Speaker C: That's weird. [00:36:35] Speaker A: The who boots involved it. I'm pretty sure we brought it up in the golden age of comics. [00:36:39] Speaker B: I'm sure we. [00:36:39] Speaker A: Explanation. [00:36:40] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:36:40] Speaker A: Now here we are again. Maybe you need to start looking into some old radio play. [00:36:45] Speaker B: Actually, I've listened to a few of the Superman ones. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Yeah, they're pretty good. [00:36:48] Speaker C: Nice. All right. Yeah. [00:36:49] Speaker A: He doesn't cackle when he throws crooks off cliffs. [00:36:51] Speaker B: He hasn't thrown anybody off. [00:36:53] Speaker D: And that's not a superman I want to listen to. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Well, tough shit for you, isn't it? [00:36:57] Speaker C: Brian really likes. [00:36:59] Speaker A: What's that? Brightburn style? [00:37:01] Speaker C: Superman. [00:37:02] Speaker D: That was nuts. [00:37:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So the radio show was very much in the rip off style of the Green Hornet radio show. [00:37:13] Speaker A: I can throw it on for. [00:37:14] Speaker B: That's right. In fact, the show ended September 13, 1940. [00:37:18] Speaker A: So that didn't go very far either. [00:37:20] Speaker B: No. [00:37:20] Speaker A: But you probably still a year in everybody. [00:37:22] Speaker C: Wow. Yeah. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Tumultuous start at best. [00:37:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:28] Speaker B: Fox Comics goes bankrupt in 1942. [00:37:32] Speaker C: Wow. Okay. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Yeah, suppose that'll happen. But Fox's printer, Holyoke printing, publishes Fox Comics's printer, the company that prints the comics. Holyoke. [00:37:47] Speaker D: Holyoke. [00:37:48] Speaker A: I thought you said holy. [00:37:49] Speaker D: I heard both. [00:37:50] Speaker A: I was like, port. It's the 40s. We're not even out of that. [00:37:54] Speaker B: Holy oak. Holy oak. [00:37:56] Speaker A: Not even Holio? I was like, I misheard. Must have been know Holio. [00:38:05] Speaker C: Let me see. [00:38:06] Speaker A: Sidekick to Blackie, the mystery boy. [00:38:09] Speaker D: Hashtag merca. [00:38:10] Speaker B: The sidekick to the sidekicks. [00:38:14] Speaker A: What's Holio's case? Well, he got polio and holes developed in him, right? [00:38:18] Speaker B: It's Holyoke. H-O-L-Y-O-K-E. Holy oak. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Printing oak. [00:38:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:26] Speaker B: But in an attempt to recoup some of the money that Fox owed them. [00:38:30] Speaker C: Sure. [00:38:30] Speaker B: They published Blue Beetle comics from 1942 to 1944. [00:38:35] Speaker A: I've been so lost in Holy Oak. I'm sorry. What did Holy Oak do? Did they buy them? Did they buy Fox comics? [00:38:41] Speaker B: No, they were just printing comics. [00:38:43] Speaker A: They were printing comics. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Printing comics using Fox's characters. [00:38:47] Speaker D: They basically got the rights to it, right? [00:38:48] Speaker B: To try and. Yes. Well, however that works, I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they got the rights. Because when Fox reappears to start Fox Comics 2.0 because, of course, there was some time spent in court debating over who actually had the right to publish. [00:39:07] Speaker C: Interesting. [00:39:08] Speaker A: Got it. So I assume Fox 2.0 is who publishes the big three later down the line. [00:39:12] Speaker B: No, that was Fox 1.0. [00:39:14] Speaker A: Okay, so the big three came out before he even goes under. [00:39:18] Speaker C: Yes. [00:39:18] Speaker A: And he still hasn't paid anybody. [00:39:20] Speaker C: Right. [00:39:21] Speaker A: Cool. [00:39:22] Speaker B: Yes. And by this time, they're just kind of taking whoever they can get to create the stories. And the art is just not very good. Even by golden age standards, it's not good. And Victor Fox gets back into publishing in 1944 and starts publishing again, this. [00:39:43] Speaker A: Time with an all new character. The gray fly. [00:39:48] Speaker B: No, still the blue Beetle. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Oh, good for him. [00:39:50] Speaker B: But in blue Beetle 52, it becomes a true crime comic with the blue Beetle as host. They love that very much like Ec's books with, like, the crypt keeper and tales astonished, but tales of the crypt. [00:40:11] Speaker A: And the rest of that kind of pulp thing. [00:40:13] Speaker B: Right, and the true crime stuff. And the blue Beetle is like, yeah, here's this crime story. Check it out. [00:40:20] Speaker A: And that's it. He's just a Scott. [00:40:21] Speaker B: He's the host. He's the host. He introduces the story, wraps up the story in the last panel. Does that throughout the book. It's ridiculous. Fox Comics goes under for good in 19. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:40:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:38] Speaker B: What a jump, right? [00:40:39] Speaker A: Okay. Who, if you don't mind me jumping aside real quick, who does come out in the DC world as these, like Fox manages to get blue Beetle and a couple of others. And that's it. [00:40:52] Speaker B: Throughout the get Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, the Adam. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Yeah, the original Adam. Little man. [00:41:01] Speaker B: Al Pratt. Well, he was short. Not shrinking, just short. The flash, Jay Garrick, plastic man. Yeah, plastic. Well, that wasn't from DC, though. That was from, quote. [00:41:15] Speaker A: But he does exist before this. [00:41:17] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah. [00:41:18] Speaker B: I mean, you've got how many characters. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Of Victor Fox has managed to continue on from that era? [00:41:24] Speaker B: Well, kind of the blue Beetle, but after being passed around and sold and resold. But I mean, here's the thing. It was not uncommon, and even still is not uncommon for one company to buy another company's characters. When the company goes, you know, that's how DC acquires the blue. You know, that's how they acquired Uncle Sam, the Blackhawks, plastic man, the human bomb, the black Condor, phantom lady, blah, blah. [00:41:56] Speaker A: Cool. [00:41:57] Speaker B: So we move into the silver Age. And in 1964, blue Beetle number one from Charlton, Dan Garrett, now with two t's because they wanted to copyright this Dan Garrett as distinct from the one t, Dan Garrett in continuity. [00:42:16] Speaker A: Are they two different people or did the first Dan Garrett not exist? [00:42:21] Speaker B: It's pretty much a new continuity because, as you recall, Garrett with one t was a cop and at some point a secret agent and then back to being a cop and then a host. And then a host feel like he's going to ask if I want smoking or non smoking. This Dan Garrett, how the mighty have fallen. [00:42:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:42:42] Speaker B: This Dan Garrett with two t's was an egyptologist with a magic scarab, like you do. Like one does. Right. And so he was the first of Charlton's action hero line that eventually includes characters like Captain Adam, the question, Night Shade, Judo Master, and a few. Several others. The blue Beetle kind of bounces around from 64 to 66, 67. And that's when Steve Ditko rolls back to Charlton from Marvel. [00:43:16] Speaker C: Cool. Got it. [00:43:17] Speaker A: What's Charlton? [00:43:18] Speaker B: Charlton is a publisher that was up in Connecticut. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Okay. [00:43:23] Speaker B: And what made them interesting is that they started off publishing, like, music magazines like Hit Parader. [00:43:32] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:43:33] Speaker B: They actually were the original publisher for Hit Parader. [00:43:35] Speaker C: Cool. [00:43:36] Speaker A: Hit Parade or hit Parader? [00:43:37] Speaker B: Hit parader. [00:43:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Mostly lyrics, stuff like that, some articles. But they were an entirely self contained publishing operation. Editorial ad sales and the actual printing of the comics in their one compound. [00:43:54] Speaker A: Wow. [00:43:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:55] Speaker B: That's what made. [00:43:56] Speaker D: It's pretty legit. [00:43:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:57] Speaker B: And that allowed them to survive some of the downturns that comics have every so often. But they didn't put a lot of effort like Dick Giordano, who some listeners may know as kind of the face of DC through the. Into the original editor for Charlton's Action Heroes line. And he has said in interviews that while they gave him a lot of leeway, they gave him no support in terms of promotion. There was no advertising budget for the comics. They were selling ad space in the comics. But there was nothing to kind of spread the word. And so they became kind of a cult sensation, but they didn't have the reach that they probably should have, if. [00:44:41] Speaker A: You know, you know, kind of thing. [00:44:43] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So Ditko rolls in fresh off of his dispute with Stan at the end of Spiderman, at the end of Dr. Strange. 1960, 619 67. [00:44:55] Speaker A: Is Jack gone from Marvel at this point? [00:44:57] Speaker B: Jack is about to leave. [00:44:59] Speaker C: Okay. [00:45:00] Speaker B: He goes over to DC in the. I want to say in the 70s. [00:45:04] Speaker A: When the new gods get rid. [00:45:06] Speaker B: Well, I'm about to look that up. [00:45:08] Speaker D: Going to say that sounds like he was doing Thor at the time and had ideas and then moved him to the new gods. [00:45:13] Speaker C: Right. [00:45:14] Speaker A: Give me a second, I'm going to get my doctor. [00:45:16] Speaker B: Yeah, get your Dr. Pepper, boy. [00:45:18] Speaker D: Dr. Fact check. Pepper. [00:45:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:22] Speaker B: The new Gods first show up in 1971. [00:45:25] Speaker C: Okay, cool. [00:45:26] Speaker B: So Jack would have left Marvel in 1970. [00:45:29] Speaker A: Okay, so when did Jack leave? [00:45:33] Speaker B: When did Jack leave? [00:45:34] Speaker A: When did Jack leave Marvel? [00:45:36] Speaker B: Probably 1970. [00:45:38] Speaker C: Okay. [00:45:38] Speaker B: Right around there. Ditko is gone by that time. He's, like I said, a Charlton. [00:45:43] Speaker C: Got it. [00:45:44] Speaker B: Now he's writing the blue beetle. [00:45:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:46] Speaker B: And not just writing it. He's also drawing it, obviously. [00:45:50] Speaker C: Cool. [00:45:50] Speaker B: But he's even revamping that character because this is where we get become. Yeah. Who becomes DC's blue Beetle. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Here we have two sort of blue beetles before we even get to DC's blue Beetle. [00:46:05] Speaker C: Right. [00:46:05] Speaker B: Well, and this is kind of an early legacy character, which I think I've talked before about how much I appreciated DC's dedication to the idea of legacy characters. And Ted is. Well, actually, let me back up. Have you seen Brave and the bold cartoon? [00:46:24] Speaker A: A little bit. [00:46:25] Speaker C: Yeah, a little bit. Okay. [00:46:26] Speaker B: Did you see the Blue Beetle episode? [00:46:27] Speaker D: Nope. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Is it worth watching? Is that homework? [00:46:30] Speaker B: First of all, the entire series is worth. [00:46:32] Speaker D: I hear it's really. [00:46:34] Speaker B: They. Edge wrote the theme song. When they first announced that Deidrick Bader was playing Batman in this, I thought, that's fucking dumb. But he's amazing. [00:46:43] Speaker D: I heard he's really good. [00:46:45] Speaker B: He's so good. And they go deep on the DC roster with these team ups because each episode has, like, a prologue that has nothing to do with the main story, but it shows the tail end of a team up between Batman and somebody else. [00:47:02] Speaker C: Oh, cool. [00:47:02] Speaker B: Like commandee, for example, a Jack Kirby character from the 70s. [00:47:07] Speaker C: Wow. [00:47:07] Speaker B: The last boy on Earth from the future. [00:47:10] Speaker C: Okay. [00:47:11] Speaker B: And then we get the awesome theme song, which, as you mentioned, is written by edge. And then we cut into the main episode, part of the episode where he's teamed up with somebody completely different. Maybe it's a Green Lantern. Maybe it's the Justice Society. Maybe it's the outsiders. It could so Dally, Winston. It could be what? [00:47:32] Speaker A: Featuring Dali. Winston. What the hell is the outsiders? That's a deep literature cut that you should know, Mr. English teacher. [00:47:42] Speaker B: Ask me how many times I've taught the outsiders. [00:47:44] Speaker A: How many times you taught the outsiders? [00:47:46] Speaker B: None. [00:47:47] Speaker A: You shouldn't have. [00:47:48] Speaker B: It's also a middle school book. [00:47:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:51] Speaker D: Stay goldener, silver. Whatever the fuck you want. [00:47:54] Speaker B: Stay gold pony boy, if you're into. [00:47:57] Speaker D: That kind of thing. [00:47:57] Speaker C: I don't know. Whatever. [00:47:59] Speaker B: The only reason I know the whole stay gold pony boy thing is because my roommate, freshman year in college, Jim Deck, who's, I guarantee, not listening to this, but he was very nice, very naive when I met him. And all of his friends back home called him pony boy. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Yeah, pony boy would have been an easier cut to pull from. Sorry, Dally Winston. My favorite line in that book is one of my favorite lines from literature ever, but it's a huge spoiler for the book. Do you mind? [00:48:30] Speaker B: I don't mind. They all die. I'm 51 years old. If I haven't read it yet, I'm not going to read it. [00:48:36] Speaker A: I think that's rather defeated of you, but Dally Winston decides to basically suicide by cop. [00:48:42] Speaker B: Okay. [00:48:44] Speaker A: Throughout the whole book, they constantly say Dally Winston always got what he wanted. And then Dally Winston runs out to the cops, gets shot down, and it says he wanted to die. And Dally Winston always got what he wanted. And it's so hard when it happens. It's so rough, because the whole book, it's like Dally Winston wants to go talk to this girl, and Dally Winston always gets what he know. And that's, like, the running line the whole time. And then you realize Dally Winston's life sucks like all of theirs do. [00:49:14] Speaker C: Right? [00:49:14] Speaker A: Because they're the outsiders. Anyway, I hope all of you have been excited about this outsiders podcast we're. [00:49:19] Speaker C: In the middle of. [00:49:20] Speaker A: That was all lead up to what our actual episode is about today. You thought we were faking you out with Mario, but it turns out we don't even care about the blue beetle. Blue beetle, schmoo beetle. Anyway, no, back to the blue beetle. [00:49:33] Speaker C: Oh, fuck that shit. I'm outside. [00:49:37] Speaker B: So where I was going with all this, with the reason for my detour into the brave and the bold cartoon. There's an episode where Batman teams up with the blue beetle, and it's basically a retelling of blue beetle number two with Batman added in. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Now, when you say blue beetle number two, you are meaning from second blue beetle from Charlton. [00:50:00] Speaker C: Yes. [00:50:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:50:01] Speaker B: Yeah, so the Ted cord. The Ted cord blue beetle. [00:50:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:06] Speaker B: So kind of the issue number one of the new Blue Beetle series, the second blue beetle series from Charlton. Ted cords of the blue, if you will. I told you I would never live that day. Anyway, sad trombone. Anyway, issue number one, Ted is clearly the new blue beetle, and he is clearly not the same guy as the previous blue beetle. Different costume. What we would look at. Well, I guess not today, because today we would see Jaime's costume, but kind of the two different shades of blue, kind of the beetle legs kind of on the chest. So completely different costume from Dan Garrett. And so everyone's like, what happened to the other guy? Where's the other blue beetle? What happened to him? [00:51:04] Speaker C: Right. [00:51:05] Speaker A: Dan was an egyptologist. [00:51:06] Speaker C: Yes. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Okay, so he's got the scarab origin. [00:51:09] Speaker C: Yes. [00:51:10] Speaker B: And if I remember correctly, Dan was uncle. [00:51:16] Speaker D: Interesting. [00:51:16] Speaker C: Yes. Cool. [00:51:18] Speaker D: It's kind of a way to keep it all kind of interconnected. [00:51:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:21] Speaker B: So there's a reason for Ted to be the blue beetle, but he has, like, the bug, the we've, that we've seen in other DC comics and in other cartoons and stuff. He doesn't have the same kind of power set. All of Ted's powers are external. It's all from the technology. And Ted's assistant, tracy, whom he's in love with. And she hasn't decided if she's in love with him yet, but she's kind of leaning that way. She wants to know where, you know, because she knows Dan. The cops want to know where Dan is. [00:51:58] Speaker C: Oh. [00:51:58] Speaker A: So this becomes, like, a major plot point of, like, what the hell happened? [00:52:01] Speaker B: A major plot point that gets resolved in issue two because Ted and rely. [00:52:07] Speaker A: On people to buy more than two comics at a time. [00:52:09] Speaker B: Well, distribution was spotty then. Specialty shops. Specialty shops weren't a thing then. Yeah. [00:52:16] Speaker A: This is a newsstand situation. [00:52:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:52:18] Speaker B: Newsstand situation. And if you're, I mean, comics were a low ticket item. Not like today, where they cost three, four, $5 an issue. I think we're still in the 15 cent area. Yeah. But in issue two, Ted and Tracy end up on Pego Pego island, which is where Dan died. And Ted reveals his identity as the blue beetle to Tracy and tells Tracy, by the way, here's how Dan died. [00:52:53] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:52:53] Speaker B: Okay. [00:52:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:55] Speaker B: And it gets kind of heavy. [00:52:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:58] Speaker B: And it's kind of unusual for the hero to reveal his identity to the love interest that quickly. [00:53:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:04] Speaker A: Where's the tension? [00:53:06] Speaker B: New issues, new sets of tension. Now, instead of wondering why he's never around, she knows why he's never around. And now she worries about him. [00:53:15] Speaker A: I mean, that's my favorite part of the Mary Jane Peter Parker dynamic. [00:53:19] Speaker B: You should tell that to Joe Quasada. [00:53:23] Speaker A: If I could tell that entire company some thoughts about Spiderman. [00:53:27] Speaker D: Yeah, I'm sure this last run has been. [00:53:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:32] Speaker B: So this series runs to issue five. [00:53:37] Speaker C: That's it. [00:53:38] Speaker A: I'm noticing a trend here. [00:53:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:40] Speaker B: So 1968, I mentioned Dick Giordano earlier. 68 is when he moves to DC and he takes a few guys with him. Pat Boyette, Denny O'Neill Steve Scrosey. These are some of his writers. [00:53:54] Speaker C: Okay. [00:53:54] Speaker B: So he takes them with him. [00:53:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:57] Speaker A: Those names seem much more realistic than some of the fake names you've thrown out. Like Dan Garrett or Victor Fox. [00:54:02] Speaker C: Right. [00:54:03] Speaker D: Well, Garrett with the one t. Two t is cool. [00:54:07] Speaker A: Two t totally believe. [00:54:08] Speaker B: No, he's cool. [00:54:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:09] Speaker B: One t, nobody's. So we get into the mid 80s because Blue Beetle is pretty fallow at that point because Charlton owns them. They're not doing anything with them. Okay. Because they're trying to keep their head above water. They're selling off hit Parader and some of their other magazines because those were their valuable properties. [00:54:30] Speaker C: Right. [00:54:31] Speaker A: No one wants this. [00:54:32] Speaker B: No one wants the comic. [00:54:34] Speaker C: Right. [00:54:35] Speaker B: We get into the mid 80s, though, and DC won't say when they bought it. When they bought the action hero line from Charlton. I don't know why, but I would guess it has something to do with potential copyright claims. [00:54:50] Speaker A: We can't say why when because it'll make our claims less legitimate. [00:54:55] Speaker C: Right. [00:54:55] Speaker B: But at that point, DC purchases the action heroes from Charlton. The rumor that I heard is that Paul Levitz, who was the president. Sorry. Yeah. The publisher of DC at the time bought the action heroes as a gift for Jordano who was the managing editor. [00:55:14] Speaker A: At the Gotcha some toys. [00:55:16] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And Jordano hops right to it and puts them to use. Or has Marv Wolfman and George Perez put them to use in crisis on infinite earths? [00:55:29] Speaker C: Beautiful. Yeah. [00:55:30] Speaker B: Earth four, in case you were curious. [00:55:32] Speaker A: I was. [00:55:33] Speaker B: And if you weren't curious, it's still Earth four. [00:55:36] Speaker A: Okay. [00:55:39] Speaker B: So that brings us to. No, no. We still got stuff to do with Ted. [00:55:45] Speaker A: Oh, I didn't realize Ted was still playing. [00:55:47] Speaker B: You may need to make this a two parter. [00:55:48] Speaker A: Oh, God. [00:55:49] Speaker C: Okay. [00:55:49] Speaker B: Well, you want me to speed this up a little bit? [00:55:52] Speaker A: We can move through. [00:55:53] Speaker B: I'll speed it up a little. Okay. Side note. [00:55:58] Speaker A: Side note. [00:55:59] Speaker B: I am going to speed it up a little. Side note. [00:56:01] Speaker C: I know. [00:56:02] Speaker B: Side note. Alan Moore's the Watchman originally was written with the Charlton characters. Oh, yes. [00:56:11] Speaker C: Wow. [00:56:12] Speaker A: That's how they fit in. [00:56:14] Speaker C: Yes. [00:56:14] Speaker A: Because I know that everyone in there is based loosely on things like the question. [00:56:20] Speaker B: No, directly. So here's what happens. Moore puts together his proposal using the Charlton characters. Turns it into Giordano kill peacemaker. Giordano says, this is great. I love it. But it makes these characters completely mean. Even as a non continuity story, it completely breaks the toys. So can you come up with some analogs? And so they. [00:56:53] Speaker C: Analog? [00:56:54] Speaker B: Well, like you said, there's an analog for the question. That's Rorschach for Nightshade. That is silk spectre. Ozamandius is Peter Cannon. Thunderbolt. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Night owls. [00:57:06] Speaker B: The night owls are the blue beetles. [00:57:09] Speaker C: Okay. [00:57:11] Speaker B: Hollis is Dan Garrett. And Dan Dryberg is Ted Kord. [00:57:16] Speaker A: The new one is Ted Kord. [00:57:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:57:18] Speaker A: That makes sense. Okay. [00:57:19] Speaker B: The comedian is the peacemaker. [00:57:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:22] Speaker B: Dr. Manhattan. Captain Adam. [00:57:24] Speaker D: Shit, I didn't even realize that. [00:57:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:26] Speaker A: Okay, so they're all out of Charlton comics. [00:57:28] Speaker C: Yes. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Not out of DC comics. [00:57:30] Speaker B: Correct. [00:57:31] Speaker A: Quite. [00:57:32] Speaker C: Okay. [00:57:32] Speaker A: Because that aspect of the timeline has kind of always been dodgy when trying to read it. Because I'm like, wait a minute. If these are based on those characters, that those characters aren't showing up until later. What are you talking about? [00:57:45] Speaker C: Right. [00:57:45] Speaker A: And the fact. Because people will say, oh, yeah, these are actually based on these characters from DC. But they aren't based on these characters from DC. [00:57:51] Speaker B: Well, DC owned the characters at that point. [00:57:54] Speaker A: Get the characters. [00:57:55] Speaker B: And they were like, hey, we just got these toys. [00:57:57] Speaker A: Please don't break them. [00:57:58] Speaker C: Right. [00:57:58] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:57:59] Speaker A: So he gave them the toys. And then Alan Moore says, I want to break your toys. And they said, please don't make your own toys first. [00:58:07] Speaker C: Right. [00:58:07] Speaker A: And he said, okay, I'll put different clothes on your toys. [00:58:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:58:11] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. [00:58:12] Speaker B: That's pretty much how it went verbatim. [00:58:15] Speaker A: That's exactly how the conversation. [00:58:16] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:58:18] Speaker A: That sounds like an Alan Moore conversation. Makes perfect sense to me. [00:58:21] Speaker B: Pretty much. Except rumbly and with a british accent. [00:58:24] Speaker D: Right. [00:58:25] Speaker A: Hairy. [00:58:26] Speaker B: Yes. Rumbly and hairy and kind of a british accent. [00:58:32] Speaker D: Hey, so you know how Dave's a genius? [00:58:34] Speaker E: An absolute genius. [00:58:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:36] Speaker D: So we're actually going to split this up into two episodes. [00:58:38] Speaker C: Hooray. Yeah. [00:58:39] Speaker D: Two episodes. [00:58:40] Speaker C: Two episodes. Easier for releasing. [00:58:44] Speaker E: Are we going to release it at our usual schedule or. We have a plan for that. [00:58:49] Speaker C: Yeah. I don't know. [00:58:49] Speaker A: We'll figure it out. [00:58:50] Speaker E: Not make promises about scheduling. [00:58:52] Speaker C: But. We're back. We're back. We're back. Yeah. [00:58:56] Speaker E: So that's the end of the episode. [00:58:58] Speaker D: Hope you enjoyed part one. Part two is great too. A lot of good stuff. [00:59:01] Speaker A: So we got all the way to. [00:59:03] Speaker E: Charlton comics and eventually getting to DC. That's where we've landed. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Right. [00:59:08] Speaker E: So we got the Alan Moore. [00:59:10] Speaker D: Yeah. So now we're in like, the late 80s, early 90s era. And that's what part two is going to take us off. [00:59:15] Speaker E: Are we even in the late eighty s? I think we're still technically in the. [00:59:19] Speaker D: Well, no, because all the Alan Moore stuff. [00:59:22] Speaker E: Watchmen and all that. [00:59:23] Speaker D: Watchmen. [00:59:23] Speaker E: That was. No, that book is very eighty s. It even has an excessive amount of brown. Yeah, I don't know if you've noticed this. People don't talk about it. There's a lot of brown in. The ashtrays were brown. [00:59:35] Speaker A: The buildings were brown. [00:59:36] Speaker E: We really loved Brown. [00:59:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:38] Speaker D: All the trim. Just ugly. What were you guys thinking? [00:59:43] Speaker C: I don't know. [00:59:44] Speaker A: Weird. [00:59:44] Speaker D: Anyways, so, yeah, that was part one. [00:59:47] Speaker C: Cool. What are you playing? [00:59:48] Speaker A: What are you reading? [00:59:49] Speaker D: So I'm finally getting round to finishing Miles Morales. [00:59:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:59:54] Speaker D: Because I am hyped off of Spiderman, and Spiderman two is coming out, and I'm like, I need to finish this game. And the last time I played, it was January, and it's a fairly short game, so I'm already at, like, 69%. [01:00:07] Speaker A: Nice. [01:00:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:11] Speaker D: And then just catching up on all the X Men books right now and eagerly awaiting phase three of high Republic. What you got going on? [01:00:20] Speaker E: I'm still living and breathing. Breath of the wild. [01:00:23] Speaker D: It's so pretty. [01:00:24] Speaker E: It's so pretty. [01:00:25] Speaker A: It's such a pretty game. [01:00:27] Speaker E: And I am just starting journey into mystery. I finally sat down and got back to the stack kid. [01:00:34] Speaker D: Loki is the best. Loki. [01:00:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:37] Speaker D: Also, Gillen's run is just fantastic. [01:00:38] Speaker E: Oh, it's so good. It's so good. And I loved the little Christmas special with all the nine hell dogs, because surger's. [01:00:47] Speaker C: Surger. Yeah. Is it surger? [01:00:49] Speaker E: No, it's the big. [01:00:52] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, no, that's not surger. I can't remember the name. Anyways, not important. [01:00:57] Speaker E: Anyway, yeah, he had puppies. She had puppies. And they're like, part that dog and part some other guardian beast dog. When the dog brings in, like, hey, these are yours. You set your dog on me. First we fought, and then we didn't. [01:01:16] Speaker D: Yes. All right, then. [01:01:20] Speaker E: Anyway, so, yeah, I've got the very beginning of that started, and that's pretty much what I'm doing right now. [01:01:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Cool. Cool. [01:01:29] Speaker E: You want to go to Vegas, dude? [01:01:30] Speaker D: Yeah, let's go to Vegas. [01:01:31] Speaker C: Okay, let's go to Vegas. [01:01:32] Speaker D: Yeah, we're going to Vegas. [01:01:33] Speaker C: We're going to Vegas. Bye.