021 - An Adventure in Time and Whoboots

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You. [00:00:01] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. My name is Bryce Rankins, and you're listening to episode 21 of Sneaky Geek. Hi, everybody. Welcome back. Dave, how was the bathroom? [00:00:46] Speaker A: That was a long trip. [00:00:47] Speaker C: It was. I'm exhausted. I am exhausted. [00:00:54] Speaker A: Yeah, we recorded that in, like, september. [00:00:57] Speaker B: Yeah, man, I think it was September. That beats my p. After Lord of the Rings, the return of the king. That was a good 45 seconds. You've definitely beat that record. [00:01:07] Speaker C: Well, got to go when you got. [00:01:09] Speaker A: To go and then keep going for the record. [00:01:12] Speaker B: I don't want to just go throwing your business out everywhere, but Dave goes to the bathroom like seven times a day at work. Hold it. [00:01:20] Speaker C: Now, this makes it sound like there's some kind of problem. Look, not a lot. For those of you who don't know, I'm a high school teacher. That means every 55 minutes I have a seven minute passing period, and he. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Chooses it to pass. [00:01:34] Speaker C: Well, if I don't go during the passing period, I'll get 20 minutes into the next class, and then I got to wait 40 minutes, 45 minutes to pee again. And that's just not going to be pleasant for anybody. [00:01:45] Speaker B: But for the record, I feel like I just wanted to go on the record saying that maybe you have to pee every passing period now or halfway into the next one because you've trained your body to pee every 55 minutes for the first half of your day. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Maybe he's just well hydrated today. [00:02:04] Speaker B: We're talking about doctor who. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Again. Didn't we already talk about this for like 7 hours that one day? [00:02:13] Speaker C: Yeah, didn't we talk about this for 7 hours that one day? [00:02:18] Speaker A: This is why Bryce finished drink already. [00:02:21] Speaker C: Indeed. Indeed. [00:02:23] Speaker B: The second half of the doctor who episode. Oh, yeah. [00:02:25] Speaker A: What happened? [00:02:26] Speaker B: Uh, remember the really sad episode we had a while back where I said, that is reserved for something else, sir. [00:02:36] Speaker A: But it fits with this. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Remember the sad episode the other day when we were talking about how I lost all sorts of things when my hard drive fell? [00:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:45] Speaker B: I lost the second half of our doctor who episode. [00:02:49] Speaker C: There was brilliance in that episode. [00:02:52] Speaker B: Brilliance that I am positive, positive that you will be able to replicate, probably, which is why we're here. And frankly, at that point in the episode. [00:03:05] Speaker C: It was well past 01:00 in the morning. [00:03:08] Speaker B: We were tired. So said brilliance was definitely under the. [00:03:12] Speaker C: Influence of tiredness, sleepiness, little alcohol. Maybe it's a pizza. We thought we were really fucking funny. [00:03:24] Speaker B: We kind of were. [00:03:24] Speaker A: We kind of were because we're slightly delayed. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Anyway. [00:03:28] Speaker A: But in better news, that was back in September when we. [00:03:31] Speaker C: That was before the last before the Christmas episode. [00:03:36] Speaker B: I haven't seen the Christmas episode. [00:03:38] Speaker C: Tough shit, because it's probably going to be spoiled for you. And before the regeneration into the 13th Doctor. So there's all kinds of stuff to talk about. [00:03:49] Speaker B: There is all kinds of stuff to talk about. So where we left off in our Doctor who Christmas special, sneaky geek Christmas special was September was right around the who boot. [00:04:01] Speaker C: No, fuck you. That's the worst thing. [00:04:05] Speaker B: That's okay. [00:04:07] Speaker C: I've said a lot of terrible things in my time. That is my shame. That is going to outlive me. I'm sure. That is the most terrible thing I've ever said. [00:04:17] Speaker A: Who boot. [00:04:19] Speaker C: Fuck you, asshole. [00:04:22] Speaker B: I almost wish that there was a corresponding drink that you had to take every time we said the words get you caught. [00:04:30] Speaker A: I'm going to say that could be a good thing or bad thing because we might just say hoop. Every other word. [00:04:38] Speaker B: Drake, you know. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Shouldn'T have said it. [00:04:44] Speaker B: All right, anyway, we're talking about Doctor who boot. We are talking about. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Specifically, this is. [00:04:55] Speaker C: A podcast, and those of you who aren't here right now can't see me giving Shabba the double shock bird power. [00:05:05] Speaker B: He's flipping me off. Anyway, doctor who, we made it all the way from William Hartnell and all the stuff at the behind the scenes. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Time and space in the scenes all. [00:05:20] Speaker B: The way to Chris Eccleston. Or just before. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Just before. [00:05:23] Speaker C: We left off after Paul McGahn with the joint venture between the BBC and Fox. And I don't know if I made this comment, but the first time I saw the movie, I was watching it with my buddy Rob. And Rob had the best observation. He said, you can tell who was responsible for which parts. All the cool shit came from the BBC, all the dumb shit came from Fox. And that's pretty accurate. [00:05:52] Speaker B: Yeah. I wonder if that also applies to, what was that, season four of Torchwood. Oh, on Stars Circle Day? [00:05:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know, because stars had. [00:06:00] Speaker B: Some really cool stuff going on for it. But there was also some aspects to that season that were just so dark. But we'll get Torchwood in a bit. So what happened after Paul McGann? [00:06:12] Speaker C: Okay, so after a couple of years. Yeah, well, the movie, the 96 movie, was intended as a pilot for a joint venture between. Yeah, it was supposed to be a joint venture to kick start a new series. Yeah, sort of. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Who boot? Fuck you. [00:06:37] Speaker C: Anyways, I'm never going to live this. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Down, not when we're having this much fun with it. You punctuated it with a sound effect. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Like you set that up yourself. [00:06:48] Speaker C: I didn't expect you assholes to buy into it so easily. [00:06:51] Speaker A: You, sir, don't know on these drinks you make. [00:06:55] Speaker C: Sadly, yes, I do. Anyway, so the Doctor who movie was intended to be a know for a new series co funded by the BBC and Fox because remember, Fox was owned at the time by Rupert Murdoch. [00:07:14] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:07:15] Speaker C: British citizen. So australian, british. Anyway, a member of the Commonwealth. And the movie did great in England because Doctor who. Because Doctor who, not so great in America because Doctor who at the time. At the time. Right. [00:07:40] Speaker B: There's a certain degree of legacy that definitely gives it some clout overseas. But here. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Right. But again, it wasn't ready especially. Yeah, at the time this was 96. [00:07:49] Speaker B: And there have since been movie theater events involving Doctor who. Great success in the. But not until this wasn't in theater. [00:07:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it was a tv movie. Yeah, this was just a tv movie. So we haven't even gotten to theatrical stuff yet. [00:08:05] Speaker A: But again, at the time in America we didn't have a lot of Sci-Fi stuff on Primetime. [00:08:10] Speaker B: We had Voyager, I think in 96. Right. No one watched I watched Voyager and so did my brother and so did my sister and multiple televisions. That's three tvs. [00:08:20] Speaker C: I actually watched Voyager. [00:08:22] Speaker B: I liked it. [00:08:23] Speaker C: But Star Trek is a different podcast, right? [00:08:25] Speaker B: Star Trek, different podcast. However, there is a really cool Star Trek Doctor who crossover in the comics. Yes. [00:08:32] Speaker C: Which if we want to talk about crossovers, we can do that later. [00:08:38] Speaker B: Crossovers is probably. [00:08:40] Speaker C: But after the film, that's when big finish starts to really kick up some of the audio dramas. They had brought in some of the previous doctors, Colin Baker, Tom Baker. And I think they had brought in Peter Davison by then the Fifth Doctor. [00:08:54] Speaker A: Oh, who. [00:08:55] Speaker C: And they were really starting to get the machine going. [00:08:59] Speaker B: Is he celery Doctor or bowler hat Doctor? [00:09:01] Speaker C: Celery Doctor. Sylvester McCoy is who you're thinking of. And it wasn't a bowler, it was more of a pork fair. Anyway, so since McGahn was not going to get the tv episodes, pretty much almost the entirety of his story is told in the big finnish audio dramas. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Cool. [00:09:23] Speaker C: They are magnificent. [00:09:25] Speaker A: So did those start right after his episode tv movie or was that more because I know we did some recent stuff with the 50th. [00:09:35] Speaker C: Yeah, he has been involved pretty extensively. Big finish kind of takes the 8th Doctor and tells his stories in part because the television rights were still tied up in the deal with Fox. [00:09:57] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:09:58] Speaker C: So it took a while for those rights to become available and by the time they did as they were heading into the 2005 reboot. [00:10:09] Speaker B: This was an all too familiar problem. [00:10:12] Speaker C: Yes. [00:10:13] Speaker B: This Fox has Fox. Fox has a hold of a right that we want to be owned by the Firefly. Firefly X Men. [00:10:26] Speaker A: There's not enough drinks for this. [00:10:28] Speaker C: Right. Anyway, so McGann's story is told in the big finish audios. [00:10:32] Speaker B: Jumping way ahead. Does this go all the way up until the sisterhood of Karn mini episode, the story? [00:10:38] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. And we can talk about that now or we can talk about it now. All right. So McGann does get another bite at the Doctor who apple on tv. He comes back for the night of the Doctor. It's a mini episode that is released during the 50th anniversary hoopla. And it hoopla and it tells his regeneration how his story ends. And what was exciting about that was because in the fandom, there was a lot of discussion and conflict over. Are the big finish audios canon? Are they not canon? In the night of the Doctor, when he regenerates, he acknowledges his companions from the audio. From the audios. Yeah. [00:11:30] Speaker B: Oh, how cool is that? [00:11:33] Speaker C: Yeah, that is super neat. Right. [00:11:36] Speaker A: Which was really cool because at the time I was a casual fan. We ended up going to theater to. [00:11:41] Speaker B: See the 50th anniversary. [00:11:44] Speaker A: 50Th episode. 50th episode. Just the 50th episode? No, the 50th anniversary episode. But seeing the little mini episode and him mentioning stuff like that, it caused me a casual fan to be like, what are those about? And so kind of let me to go look into it and see what was going on and get to that. I haven't listened to them yet, but I plan to. [00:12:10] Speaker C: They are amazing. [00:12:11] Speaker B: I need to pick them up. [00:12:12] Speaker A: The Internet blows up about it every time there's a new one. They're like, oh, this is fantastic. This is great. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Need to load those things onto my phone because I drive a lot. I'm caught up on my Steven universe podcast. I officially don't have any more episodes to listen to. [00:12:26] Speaker A: Cool. You can listen to more Star wars stuff. [00:12:28] Speaker B: I guess I can go back to Star wars or Doctor who stuff. So the big finish audio dramas are, in fact, canon. They are canon on the lore side of things. Paul McGann's Doctor pretty much is official. [00:12:41] Speaker C: And he was acknowledged in the television show and all that. But that night of the Doctor episode gives us the war. [00:12:47] Speaker B: It doesn't lead us into Eccleston. It leads us into John Hurt. [00:12:52] Speaker C: Right? John Hurt was Maggie's. May he rest in peace. John Hurt, as the war Doctor fills in the gaps, a gap that time war gap. I guess we hadn't really talked about that yet. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:10] Speaker B: No. So we finish up with, as far as everyone knows at the time, at least for the mainstream viewers, we finish up with this film and then we wait ten years, and then Eccleston shows up about four episodes in when is the Dalek in Utah? [00:13:27] Speaker C: I think you're right. [00:13:29] Speaker B: Fourth episode, then we have this mention of this great time war. He's alone, but he kind of alludes. [00:13:35] Speaker C: To some of that in the first, in Rose, he kind of alludes talking. [00:13:40] Speaker B: To the big thing at the end. [00:13:42] Speaker C: Right. To the nestine consciousness. [00:13:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:47] Speaker C: He alludes to the fact that he is the last of the Time Lords. There are no others and happened. Right. [00:13:52] Speaker A: And it kind of freaked him out. [00:13:54] Speaker C: Right. And that was a conscious choice on the part of Russell T. Davies, the showrunner. Davies. Let me back up just a little bit. Davies was given basically a blank slate. He was one of the BBC's most important creators at the time. They said, do whatever you want. He's like, I'll take Doctor who. Thank you. [00:14:15] Speaker A: He also did one of the big finish audiobooks back in the mid ninety s. Yeah. [00:14:20] Speaker B: Did he really? [00:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:22] Speaker C: So he wrote a whole thing. Yeah, that's the whole thing. [00:14:25] Speaker B: I mean, he wrote a big finish audio drama. [00:14:27] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:14:28] Speaker B: Okay. [00:14:29] Speaker C: And yes, I'll mention something else about that later. [00:14:32] Speaker B: So this leads us into. [00:14:36] Speaker C: But Davies had to navigate some competing interest here, including his own, because on the one hand, fans are expecting some things, longtime fans are expecting certain things, but he also has to make it accessible for new fans because at this point, there's a generation of fans or a generation of people that's come up not having Doctor who available to was. If he relied on solely the existing Doctor who audience, it wouldn't have lasted. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Right. And there's plenty of people, I'm sure, in that group who didn't necessarily consider the film as possibly, like, something that was really official. So that's basically been a 20 year gap. [00:15:27] Speaker C: Right. With the episode Rose, which is the first episode of the new series. [00:15:42] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:15:44] Speaker C: Anyway, with Rose, there's no mention of the Time Lords, there's no mention of Gallifrey, except to say, they're not here anymore. You have to introduce the basic know. Reduced to its core. Here's this alien from the north because lots of planets have a lot, and he travels through time and space. And that's it. [00:16:10] Speaker B: That's it in a tardis. [00:16:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:13] Speaker B: Which is a broken chameleon circuit. Which has a broken chameleon circuit. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:18] Speaker B: So can we go back for a second, sure, because we know Russell T. Davies gets. Know he gets the thing. But does anything happen beyond the big finish audio dramas regarding the show? Are there any attempts to try to get it stirred, moving up? [00:16:32] Speaker C: You've got things like, I think I mentioned in the previous episode, the comic strips in the Doctor who magazine, there are novelizations of episodes. There are also the new Doctor who adventures, which are original novel adventures. [00:16:52] Speaker B: The brand is still very much thriving, just. [00:16:55] Speaker C: And doing gangbusters on home video. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Really? [00:16:59] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. It was selling great on home video. Not only vhs, but then dvd comes out. You know how this works. New format, everybody's got to rebuy everything. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Oh, me and all my Star wars movies. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Yes. I saw a vhs copy of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone yesterday. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:20] Speaker B: I did not know that VHS was still rocking when Harry Potter Sorcerer's stone came out. [00:17:25] Speaker C: There you were. So there were things going on to keep it alive in the public eye, at least in England. Here, not so much. In fact, by the time it aired here, because it aired in 2005 in. [00:17:47] Speaker B: England, Eccleston's reboot, who boot Eccleston airs in 2005. [00:17:55] Speaker C: Right? [00:17:56] Speaker B: Okay, that's Doctor number nine. [00:17:58] Speaker C: Yes. But here it doesn't air till 2006 on the Sci-Fi network. [00:18:04] Speaker A: That's right. [00:18:04] Speaker C: In fact, by the time it airs here, it's already been announced that Eccleston is not returning and David Tennant is coming in. [00:18:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:13] Speaker C: Fun fact, David Tennant was the guy they originally wanted. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Oh, but he was in the middle of. [00:18:19] Speaker C: He was filming Harry Potter and the fire. Right? [00:18:24] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Speaking of which, I just got that book today to finish my collection, which is weird. That was the first book I read, but I borrowed it from two copies. [00:18:32] Speaker B: Of Harry Potter and the Gospel of. [00:18:33] Speaker A: Like, I bought it from a friend to read it for the first time, fell in love with it, and then just bought the books after that. And then I got the other books from my sisters, but that was the book they were missing. And I just got it today from my aunt. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Tada. [00:18:46] Speaker A: All works out. [00:18:47] Speaker B: It all works out. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker C: Word out. [00:18:49] Speaker A: Good podcast. We'll see you guys later. [00:18:50] Speaker B: Yes. Peace into Dapoli. Hoo boo. Anyway, back. [00:19:00] Speaker C: It's probably a good thing this is the last of the Doctor who episodes for some time because people are going to stop listening if that becomes a regular feature. [00:19:13] Speaker A: Or will they? [00:19:14] Speaker C: Or will they? [00:19:16] Speaker B: Probably. [00:19:16] Speaker C: Anyway, so we get David Tennant. [00:19:19] Speaker B: He'll lose all ten of them. Just kidding. We know there's like 30 of you, especially you person in Japan who has never responded to us calling out the fact that we know you exist and has listened to every episode. [00:19:38] Speaker A: Oh, thanks, buddy. [00:19:40] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:19:41] Speaker B: Anyway, so Christopher Eccleson five. [00:19:45] Speaker C: Right. [00:19:45] Speaker B: Six in America. David Tennant's coming on. [00:19:48] Speaker C: Right. And we're still on like a six month delay between airing in England and airing here. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:56] Speaker C: Which was super inconvenient because by that. [00:20:04] Speaker B: The Internet's not less true, but the. [00:20:08] Speaker C: Fandom is starting to kind of generate here and there's starting to be demand. Remember, at this point, BBC America doesn't exist. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:17] Speaker C: And. Are you all right? [00:20:20] Speaker B: I'm fairly certain BBC America exists, at. [00:20:25] Speaker C: Least in 2004, not as a widely available cable channel. [00:20:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:31] Speaker B: I was going to say I had it on satellite. [00:20:33] Speaker A: I was going to say, because before, I think it was mainly, like, news. [00:20:36] Speaker B: It was news and Monty Python, that was pretty much it. And occasionally Father Ted. But I watched Father Ted on BBC America and BBC America had to have been available then in 2003 or 2000. [00:20:46] Speaker C: And dude, if my eyes roll any harder, they're going to pop right out. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Of my father Ted is under the couch and Monty Python is quality satire. [00:20:55] Speaker C: Both of those things are a lie. [00:20:58] Speaker B: Dave and I disagree. And that's okay. [00:21:01] Speaker C: That might be because my primary exposure to father Ted is from high school. Shabba. Doing speeches of it, doing a 30. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Minutes episode in eight and a half minutes. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Okay. BBC America launched in 98. [00:21:17] Speaker C: Okay, well, it wasn't widely available. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Pick up with. It's not so widely available and it doesn't have the popularity that it does that it can start doing things like broad church and orphan black and stuff. [00:21:29] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:29] Speaker B: And it's definitely not catering to an american audience in a way that they're like, creating content for a international audience. Right. So you're basically getting the leftovers of BBC one, two, three. And up until that point, I mean, shoot, it's BBC. It doesn't even have current Doctor who airing on it. [00:21:52] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:52] Speaker B: Sci-Fi channel has that in three and four. It was still playing like fourth Doctor episodes once in a while. Those came on and they'd do like a marathon and stuff. Because that was my first exposure to Doctor who, was when I was in high school and my brother was watching it because he loves fourth Doctor. Shout out to Barrett. Not that he'll listen to this, but whatever. Barrett, if you're listening to this, because I told you. Hi, Barrett. What's up, buddy? So it doesn't have the clout, certainly, to be able to carry a new show. And frankly, it's probably not a good idea marketing wise, to air it on a channel that is not very widely received. [00:22:29] Speaker C: Exactly. ScI-Fi had a much broader exposure. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Definitely. That was sci fi's heyday. [00:22:35] Speaker A: That was classic. [00:22:36] Speaker B: They had Stargate SG one had come over from Showtime, I think, at that point. And they were creating their own shows. I think Firefly was going on over there reruns. Fox, carry on. [00:22:51] Speaker C: Okay, so Tenant is the 10th Doctor. Rose, the companion for Eccleston, has carried on. She's been kind of our transition character with Tennant. And we are plugging along. We saw the Daleks with the 9th Doctor, the Cybermen, probably the second most well known Doctor who villains show up with the 10th Doctor. [00:23:23] Speaker B: We have the first allusion to Torchwood. [00:23:26] Speaker C: Yes. [00:23:27] Speaker B: We have our introduction to Harriet. [00:23:31] Speaker C: Harriet Jones, Prime Minister. [00:23:33] Speaker B: Prime Minister. We know who you are. [00:23:36] Speaker C: Yes. Now, one thing to keep in mind is that with one of the things that Davies did that kind of carries on through subsequent seasons, is he's playing a long game. [00:23:50] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:23:50] Speaker B: Okay, my favorite part about Russell, right? [00:23:53] Speaker C: And I'm going to let that one slide. But he plays a long game because obviously each plot, or, excuse me, each episode has their main plot. But there are also little hints, little hints of a bigger picture, little sub. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Bad Wolf is the big first. [00:24:11] Speaker C: Bad Wolf is the thing. [00:24:13] Speaker B: The name of a helicopter. Like it's a call sign for a. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Helicopter spray painted on a wall. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Spray painted on graffiti. It's on the ticker going across on a television in the background. [00:24:23] Speaker C: Right. Not to give too much of it away. So we won't tell you what it. [00:24:27] Speaker B: Is, but it shows up and it ends up being important at the end. [00:24:30] Speaker A: Of the first season. [00:24:31] Speaker C: Right. [00:24:31] Speaker A: And you don't realize it until it's there and it kind of spells, right. [00:24:36] Speaker C: And then you go back and say, oh, there it is, there. There it is there, right? And Torchwood is that thing in tenant's first season, which then spins out into its own series, which is great quality aces, including in season three, one of the creepiest things, if not the creepiest thing. Most horrifying thing I've ever seen. It's during that third season, that children of Earth story. I will say no more. And you'd better not either. Clown. [00:25:10] Speaker A: That was heavy. That was a heavy. And it was so well written. And you're like, this isn't the Doctor who universe, right? [00:25:18] Speaker C: It's a lot darker than we usually. [00:25:19] Speaker B: Get from where Owen's going through his stuff too. Right? [00:25:22] Speaker C: He doesn't know and he kind of. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Stands in the world, right? [00:25:26] Speaker C: And fun fact, Peter Capaldi is in that series. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Yes, he is. And there's a dark scene of Peter. [00:25:33] Speaker A: Capaldi in there too. [00:25:34] Speaker C: Yes, there is. [00:25:35] Speaker B: I think they tried to explain Peter Capaldi away. I mean, we're going off on a tangent here, but I think they tried to explain that he was, who was one of the newer doctors of the Pompeian Capaldi character. [00:25:49] Speaker C: Let's start from the beginning here. [00:25:50] Speaker A: We can get that. [00:25:51] Speaker C: We'll come to that. We'll come to him in a second. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Let's go back to Eccleston real quick and so we can set him aside. So far we have talked about their. Russell T. Davies has taken over the series. [00:26:00] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:00] Speaker B: Eccleston is. Is there for one season. [00:26:04] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:05] Speaker B: America knows that Eccleston is going to be leaving when he shows up. [00:26:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:11] Speaker B: Does that cause tension? Is there frustration? I mean, does that help push for simulcast or do they kind of. [00:26:22] Speaker C: I don't think that the simulcast comes about because of Eccleston's departure. The big argument for simulcast was that the ratings were. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Was the phantom blew up pretty quick. [00:26:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Eccleston's run was big for Sci-Fi it was one of their highest rated shows. [00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker C: And so the BBC kind of drags their heels a little. Know. But by the time we get into hold. [00:27:03] Speaker B: By the time we get into. Go ahead. [00:27:08] Speaker C: By the time we get into Tennant's second season, which is the third season of the new series, the what now? [00:27:18] Speaker A: The hoo boo. [00:27:24] Speaker B: Please continue. [00:27:25] Speaker C: Yeah, I hate you all. Anyway, so by the time we get into Tenant's second series or second season, we start to get into the simulcast. First they get it, then we get it 24 hours later. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Now within the same day and not six months later. [00:27:47] Speaker C: Right. Or maybe it was a week off. [00:27:52] Speaker A: I think it was a week off. And then it slowly got. [00:27:55] Speaker C: Then we got same. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Really and truly. Like six wasn't the greatest year for Sci-Fi anyway. Like, we had children of men. Brilliant. The fountain. Great. We also had X Men. The last stand. [00:28:07] Speaker C: Oh, that was so at this point you're talking about science fiction in general, not Sci-Fi Superman Returns was that year. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Ultraviolet was that year. [00:28:17] Speaker C: I mean, Superman returns could have been so great. [00:28:20] Speaker B: We were hurting a little bit. I think we needed Doctor and we. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Were just coming off of revenge of the Sith. [00:28:27] Speaker B: Revenge of the Sith. [00:28:28] Speaker A: The last. [00:28:31] Speaker B: I think matrix revolutions might have been that year. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Yeah. It was Brenda five. So it was a rough couple of years, Sci-Fi wise. [00:28:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:39] Speaker A: So people were hurting for a good, solidly written Sci-Fi something. [00:28:44] Speaker B: And yet our bar was incredibly low. So Mickey getting eaten by a trash. [00:28:47] Speaker C: Can was a little more, you know. But Doctor who had a history of kind of shaky, dodgy special effects. [00:28:56] Speaker A: Easy. [00:28:58] Speaker C: So that was well within kind of the acceptable parameters. One of the things that I thought was interesting was that Eccleston was not a typical cuddly, dashing hero. [00:29:13] Speaker B: He's like, armor jacket. [00:29:15] Speaker C: My ears are too big. And humans are kind of dumb sometimes because they're stupid, which is true. But usually the hero doesn't say that. Right. [00:29:29] Speaker B: He's a little rough around. [00:29:30] Speaker C: Salty, I think is how the kids put it. [00:29:33] Speaker A: But, yeah, he's salty. [00:29:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And what's cool, because, like, the first episode we get, we have the nestine. [00:29:41] Speaker C: Consciousness, which incidentally is kind of a reboot itself of shut up. Of the third Doctor's first episode, spearhead from space. Because the third Doctor in that episode faces the autons. The 9th Doctor faces the autons as controlled by the nesting consciousness. [00:30:04] Speaker B: The autons are the mannequins. [00:30:06] Speaker C: The mannequins. Right. The creatures made of plastic. [00:30:09] Speaker B: So for me, I just want to, my personal experience, toss it in here. I have, like, a weird discomfort with mannequins. Uncanny Valley, Silent Hill definitely has a lot to do with it as well. They have a lot of, like, is. [00:30:27] Speaker C: That a video game? [00:30:28] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:28] Speaker C: Is it a scary video game? That's why I don't know it. [00:30:33] Speaker B: They tend to have mannequins, like mannequin parts, kind of chimera together. But seeing this show, and I'm like, we got to move mannequins. And they do something really cool because they do the whole they're moving when you're not looking at them, which ends up coming into play really well with the angels. It's a very good tactic for horror, for sure. So it works up until they start actually moving. And then it's a little like, okay. But that being said, we go through that whole first episode, we have these anti hero moments. We have rough around the edges. We have rose go. Yeah, no, sorry, BF. I'm going to go be with this cool dude. [00:31:19] Speaker C: Well, initially she turns the Doctor down because remember, at the end of the episode, he's like, so this machine, this ship, it's not just moving from place to place. It goes in time, too. So you want to go and you can kind of see. Yeah, she kind of does. But she's like, no, I got to take care of this guy. I got to take care of my mom. So he leaves, but then he comes back. [00:31:42] Speaker B: How long do you think he was gone? [00:31:45] Speaker C: I don't know. Long enough to get a cup of coffee. Well, cup of tea, I guess. [00:31:52] Speaker B: He seems like a coffee drink, but. [00:31:53] Speaker C: He comes back and he's like, we can do time, too, because I can have you back the second you left. [00:32:02] Speaker B: Twelve minutes. And then he. [00:32:04] Speaker C: And she's like. She's like, all right, see you later, Mickey. [00:32:08] Speaker B: And then she runs in terrible slow motion. [00:32:11] Speaker C: Yes. [00:32:12] Speaker B: So the reason that happens is because cameras at that time, especially BBC's cameras, were not able to film in 60 to 120 frames per second, so they would have to slow it down digitally afterwards, which means there's no frames between the movements, which is why it's so jerky. So this is a podcast, and I am making jerky motions anyway. [00:32:35] Speaker C: But then the second episode, I will never unsee that. God damn it. [00:32:39] Speaker A: It was weird. Do we have a sound for that? It kind of works. Kind of. [00:32:47] Speaker B: Anyway, so that's the first episode. We got all that. And then we go right into the second episode and it's like, oh, you want to see some shit? How about the end of the world with a bitchy trampoline, as they call her on Tumblr? [00:33:01] Speaker C: Cassandra. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Cassandra. [00:33:03] Speaker C: Yes. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Moisturize me. Moisturize me. [00:33:08] Speaker C: It sounds really dirty when you say it. [00:33:10] Speaker B: Like that sounds really dirty when she says it. [00:33:13] Speaker C: I think maybe it sounds dirtier when you. [00:33:15] Speaker B: It's very important that she is moisturized. You find that out later when you watch the. [00:33:21] Speaker C: Anyway, but. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:24] Speaker C: And this is where Rose and us, because Rose is the surrogate for the viewers, starts to get kind of a sense of the scope of what she's just tumbled into, because now she's at literally the end of the world, 5 million years in the future. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Earth's death in 25 minutes. [00:33:46] Speaker C: Right. Whereas I really like that episode. [00:33:50] Speaker B: I just realized, like, I know a lot of quotes from it. [00:33:53] Speaker C: Gary, I give you the gift of air from my lungs. [00:33:58] Speaker B: I wish that your children had said that to you before letting you test their breath after brushing their teeth. [00:34:07] Speaker C: Should I give. To give. Now I have to give context. Are you going to cut that? [00:34:15] Speaker A: I kind of want to keep that in there, though. [00:34:17] Speaker B: What the hell? [00:34:18] Speaker A: Real quick. [00:34:19] Speaker C: Okay. Real quick for context. The ziglits are with me this week, and I was putting them to bed before as the fellows were here and starting to set up and got to brush teeth sometimes. Those of you who have children may have noticed that they're not always completely truthful when you ask them to do something. I know that's so hard to believe. And so after I told them to brush their teeth, sometimes you got to. [00:34:51] Speaker B: Check, frankly, they came in and kind of volunteered it. They're like, no, really? I did see. Check. [00:34:56] Speaker C: Yeah, it was kind of like that. [00:34:58] Speaker B: It was a little aggressive. [00:34:59] Speaker A: Yeah. They both also. Both the ones that did them were very independent and didn't know the other one was. They're both in and out of the room. [00:35:08] Speaker B: The other had just done this, too. Right. Well, and Morgan did the gift of their lungs. Right. [00:35:15] Speaker C: And Morgan did not bother to share at all. So two of the three. I mean, maybe Morgan brushed her teeth tonight, maybe she didn't. Who knows? [00:35:24] Speaker B: No. [00:35:25] Speaker C: Which is probably more than the average listener gives a shit about the workings of the Ziegler house. So let's move on. [00:35:33] Speaker B: So we've got this anti hero. He's wearing a bomber jacket, he's got big ears. He's not necessarily your typical good looking dude. And he's a little abrasive. Shows her the end of the world, and she's like, well, shit, this is kind of messed up, dude. [00:35:45] Speaker C: Right? As we get farther into the season, we start to find out part of why he's so abrasive is because he's got survivors. Guilt massive. Because he is a little bit of PTSD, too. Yeah. He is the last of the Time Lords. We find out that the reason the Time Lords aren't around anymore is because of the time war, and we find out that he was responsible. [00:36:08] Speaker B: Talk about long game. Yeah, they reveal that for seven more seasons. [00:36:14] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you get a lot of hints. [00:36:17] Speaker C: We get a lot of hints. And Eccleston's doctor is pretty upfront about his role in things. [00:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:27] Speaker C: Now, it's definitely laying groundwork that gets paid off with the 11th doctor, but we'll get to that when we get there. But we know enough to know that when things start happening at the end of the season, there's some shock, both on the doctor's part and on our part. [00:36:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:46] Speaker C: And I don't want to spoil anything for a 13 year old season, but. [00:36:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's on Amazon. [00:36:51] Speaker C: But that's how much respect I have for you, the listener. [00:36:55] Speaker B: It's true. Yeah, it's true. He respects you very much. [00:36:58] Speaker C: Plus, I hate having shit spoiled for me. [00:37:02] Speaker A: The Internet sucks these days. [00:37:05] Speaker B: Oh, man, that's another podcast. [00:37:07] Speaker C: That's totally another podcast. [00:37:09] Speaker B: Keep it track, Amir. Carry on. [00:37:12] Speaker A: We really need to get him to give us a list of all the things we say and actually do them. [00:37:17] Speaker C: I'll bet. Know I would suggest that Tommy has a list. But I already know that Tommy doesn't do the work that he's assigned. Tommy was. Is another of my former. And when I, when I bag on Tommy, I do it with love. [00:37:33] Speaker A: He says out of love. [00:37:35] Speaker B: Okay, so we get to the end of that season. [00:37:38] Speaker C: We get to the end of season one and we have the regeneration. Eccleston was unhappy on set. He had some beef early on with one of the directors and also some conflict kind of with BBC management, as I understand it, but with some distance. He has said in other interviews that he kind of regrets leaving after one season. Like this is recent interviews that he regrets leaving after one season. And. [00:38:10] Speaker B: I think he needed a few new experiences and I think he needed to realize just how much he was loved. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [00:38:17] Speaker C: I agree with that. And maybe one of the things I'm looking forward to is eventually maybe some big finish adventures with the 9th Doctor. [00:38:30] Speaker B: That'd be cool. [00:38:33] Speaker C: Of the, I think nine surviving doctors, six of them have done big finish audios. And so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. So we regenerate into the 10th Doctor. David Tennis. [00:38:47] Speaker B: David Tennant. [00:38:48] Speaker C: We get the first of the Christmas episodes, the Christmas invasion. [00:38:53] Speaker B: That's our introduction to. Is that our first introduction to Wilfred? [00:38:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:59] Speaker C: Yes, that is our first introduction to Wilf. He is strictly minor. We have no concept. No concept going to eventually become more important. And that is where we find out that Harriet Jones is now the prime minister. She had been a backbench. [00:39:18] Speaker B: She was a council member sort of situation. Right. [00:39:21] Speaker A: Something like that. [00:39:22] Speaker C: She was part of parliament, but she was definitely a rookie legislator. But after events in Eccleston's season, she kind of gets put in a position where she can run for prime minister and wins in a landslide. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Absolutely, yes. [00:39:40] Speaker B: And then she goes through her first episode and we see that Tennant is. [00:39:44] Speaker C: Nicer in some ways. [00:39:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And I was getting to that. He's nicer, he's prettier. He's kind of goofy. He's got his weird, like, coma thing for the first half of the episode. You kind of see Rose and her mom kind of interact in a way that we haven't before, not to that extent, anyway. [00:40:01] Speaker A: You could tell they expanded just the characters in general with the writing, that they're very comfortable with writing the characters now because the first season of. [00:40:10] Speaker B: But doesn't Rose have that episode with her father? Eccleston's run? Yeah, and that's a really heavy one. We go to some heavy places and develop Rose pretty thoroughly enough that the events of the final episode of Eccleston's run really hit home, those final two, because it's two parter, which that's another thing that I feel like old Doctor who really did a lot were these multi episode story arcs and new Doctor who tends to do only a few. [00:40:40] Speaker C: A season, mostly one and dones, or done in ones, I mean, or two parters. [00:40:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:46] Speaker B: I love a good, like, three, four parter. [00:40:48] Speaker C: But part of that is the way the tv landscape has changed. Sure. [00:40:52] Speaker A: The time for that. [00:40:53] Speaker C: Yeah. A 13 episode. [00:40:56] Speaker B: They're lucky people aren't expecting it to just go straight to streaming. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:59] Speaker C: Right. [00:41:01] Speaker B: But then at the end of that episode with Tenet, now that we've had. [00:41:04] Speaker C: This, the Christmas invasion, now that we've. [00:41:06] Speaker B: Had this, we see that Tennant may be a very good and wholesome, sweet Doctor, but if you piss him off, he can do things in a way that's very clever but still very cruel with what he does with Harriet Jones. [00:41:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:27] Speaker C: And this is where, again, Rose is the surrogate for the audience. For the classic fans. For the fans of classic who, the regeneration is no big deal. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:40] Speaker C: For new fans. This is a new concept. Right. I talked in the previous episode about kind of the genius of the regeneration concept and how it allows the show to continue even as you change the actor in the main role. [00:41:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:00] Speaker C: Rose has to adjust to that as we are. Yeah. Just like we are, which I thought. [00:42:07] Speaker A: Was an awesome idea for. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Because they don't do that. And I mean, not to jump too far ahead, but they don't do that for eleven. We get a brand new companion for eleven and they don't do that for twelve or they do it for twelve. A little bit to. [00:42:18] Speaker C: Well, but we'll talk. But there are reasons for that. [00:42:23] Speaker B: But Tenet comes in and we get Rose reacting to it in a sort of, like what? Something's wrong. I don't understand this. We also get Rose's mother reacting to it, but is it that? What does any of this like? She comes from a complete outsider perspective. So we get two really good. What the hell's going on? Perspectives that are still very different and. [00:42:46] Speaker C: Still get treated this way. One of the things I like about Jackie, Rose's mom, is. One of the things I think that works about Rose is Rose dreams of more. She dreams of more than the life that she has, which is why she runs off with the doctor in the first place. Jackie, on the other hand, is the salt of the earth, the saltiest, saltiest. [00:43:12] Speaker B: Salt of the know. [00:43:13] Speaker C: Jackie is happy know, living the life. She know. Does she dream about more? Kind of, sort of. [00:43:23] Speaker B: Only in regards to money and wants. But she doesn't want adventure. She just wants. [00:43:29] Speaker C: She wants a more comfortable life. [00:43:31] Speaker A: That's what it wants. Yeah. [00:43:32] Speaker B: Because we see her at work a. [00:43:34] Speaker A: Couple of times and she's just exhausted. [00:43:37] Speaker B: She wants her life to be easier and she wants Rose's life to be easier, too. And I think is why she has a kind of aversion to the adventure, because she's like, right, this might be cool, but it's more work. Well. [00:43:48] Speaker C: And she's definitely afraid on Rose's behalf. There are points where Rose. Right, where in the context of the show, Rose has gone weeks. [00:43:59] Speaker B: She went months in the first episode. She goes to the end of the world. She comes back and the doctor goes, I miscalculated. You've been gone for a year. [00:44:07] Speaker C: Yeah. And Jackie has been freaking out. [00:44:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Because Jackie doesn't know that she left. [00:44:12] Speaker C: Right. Jackie has. Has put up missing person posters, all this. Yeah. So there's some built in conflict there between Jackie and the, you know, and Jackie kind of comes to recognize that, okay, maybe the doctor isn't so bad, but he's still kind of right. [00:44:31] Speaker A: So he still took my daughter away for a whole year. [00:44:35] Speaker C: And she's not entirely sure she trusts the doctor's intentions. [00:44:38] Speaker B: No. [00:44:38] Speaker C: And neither does, you know, Mickey, the boyfriend. [00:44:44] Speaker B: Mickey is stupid. [00:44:46] Speaker C: But once we get through Tennant's first season, we get to the end of that. So the second season of the new series, and Rose then goes. Rose leaves, as the companions do from time to time. And it's pretty heartbreaking. [00:45:04] Speaker B: Is that the one on the other side of the. [00:45:12] Speaker C: Which leads us into the next Christmas special, the runaway bride, which is where we get introduced to Donna Noble, played by Catherine Tate. [00:45:24] Speaker B: Catherine Tate has her own sketch show. If you haven't watched the Catherine Tate show, I keep meaning to. Oh, my gosh. It is pretty good on a regular basis. Catherine Tate is brilliant. [00:45:38] Speaker A: Related american Catherine Tate news she was on the office for the last two and a half seasons. [00:45:44] Speaker B: Really? [00:45:44] Speaker A: And she was hilarious. [00:45:46] Speaker C: I had no idea. British version of the Office. [00:45:50] Speaker A: The US version. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. [00:45:52] Speaker B: I think the british version of the Office only lasted a season. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Two seasons. [00:45:55] Speaker B: Two seasons. Yeah. [00:45:55] Speaker A: It was very short and a Christmas special. And then. [00:45:58] Speaker B: Those Brits love their Christmas specials. [00:46:00] Speaker A: Yeah, they do. It's a cool idea anyways. No, she was on the last couple. [00:46:03] Speaker B: Of seasons, Catherine Tate, the well known comedian, hilarious and british comedian. And she comes in for a Christmas special. [00:46:12] Speaker C: Catherine Tate comes in for a one shot, just like Kylie Minogue does in a subsequent Christmas special. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Just like wilfred did in the first tenant. [00:46:23] Speaker C: Well, but he was strictly background character. [00:46:27] Speaker A: He was local color. [00:46:30] Speaker C: We see him again in not this episode. We'll see him again. [00:46:35] Speaker A: We'll see. [00:46:35] Speaker C: Will come to Will. [00:46:36] Speaker B: The Christmas special. Runaway. [00:46:37] Speaker C: So we've got the runaway bride, and Tennant is, in some ways, still kind of in shock over Rose. He misses know. He knows she's not coming back. [00:46:48] Speaker B: Right? [00:46:49] Speaker C: And Donna comments at the end, maybe you need to find some, because Tennant asks her, hey, you want to come travel with me? And she's like, no thanks, space man. No, thanks. This is too crazy for me. But she does say, hey, you need to find someone, because it seems like maybe you need a friend. You need someone to go to. [00:47:10] Speaker B: And at this point, I don't think he's fully mourning the removal of Rose from the show as much as he is just in shock. [00:47:18] Speaker C: I agree with that. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Which. That mourning process definitely comes with the next set of episodes, the next companion. [00:47:24] Speaker C: Right, which is Martha Jones. [00:47:26] Speaker B: I love Martha, which I'm very much in a small group of people for that in many ways, but I love Martha for many reasons. One, Martha's a doctor. [00:47:36] Speaker C: Martha's a real, actual medical doctor. [00:47:39] Speaker B: She's a medical doctor. So we have a doctor and a doctor, which is really cool. And it comes into play. [00:47:42] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Two, Martha has a really fucked up family, and it doesn't really come up. [00:47:49] Speaker C: I hate Martha's mother. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Oh, Martha's mother's. Martha's family is a mess, but she doesn't really bring it up. It's not something that's like this massive part. When the doctor finally meets them all, you're like, oh, man. Sorry, Martha. But the big thing is that Martha really cares for the doctor, but doesn't Martha just how much of a rebound she is? So there's a real tragedy to Martha that gets put on her, and it's absolutely the 10th generation doctors aren't healthiness. [00:48:19] Speaker A: The whole situation was so out of. [00:48:21] Speaker B: Left field, and it's not fair. It's not fair to her. [00:48:24] Speaker A: And so she becomes a total badass. [00:48:27] Speaker C: Well, yeah. And Martha finally realizes, and that's what. [00:48:31] Speaker B: Martha finally decides to go. [00:48:33] Speaker C: She's like, yeah, I can't stay here. [00:48:34] Speaker B: She leaves on her own. It's not some tragedy or a death. [00:48:40] Speaker A: That was one of the best written episodes was just that character development. And you're like, yeah, I love me some Martha. [00:48:46] Speaker C: Right. Well, and one of the things that was interesting was the first time you have a not white companion. [00:48:53] Speaker B: Is that the first companion of color? [00:48:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:55] Speaker B: The old Coc. [00:48:57] Speaker C: Yes. Which was controversial. [00:49:01] Speaker A: Was it really? [00:49:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:03] Speaker B: What a world. [00:49:04] Speaker C: Right. And the fact that they don't go for the romance, which was so good, was really great. One of the things that gets pointed out, and I think people forget is even though he looks like us, the doctor is an alien. The doctor is from an advanced civilization and is over, what, 900 years old during that point. [00:49:34] Speaker B: During. [00:49:34] Speaker C: During that season. [00:49:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:36] Speaker C: He's eight or 900 years old and from a culture that is as far beyond us as we are beyond ants. And so the idea that he can look at his human, that's a text from my lovely wife. The idea that he could. She says, I love you, babe. You boys have an awesome night. [00:50:07] Speaker A: You have the coolest wife. [00:50:09] Speaker C: I love you too, Charlote. And we are having an awesome time. [00:50:12] Speaker A: You also have a good night and. [00:50:15] Speaker B: A good day while you're listening to this. [00:50:16] Speaker C: Yes, that's right. Damn it. Anyway, so the idea that the doctor could have romantic feelings for one of his companions or any of his companions is she's got to really be kind of weird. [00:50:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:31] Speaker C: And Martha doesn't realize all this. I mean, she knows he's an alien, but she doesn't know all the baggage, and she kind of has to dig it out of him. There's an awful lot of baggage there. Right. [00:50:42] Speaker A: Like when he takes her to new. [00:50:43] Speaker C: Earth or New York, and she makes him tell her at the end of the episode about Gallifrey, he's like, I don't want to talk about it. And she sits down and she says, well, I ain't leaving until we do. [00:51:01] Speaker A: That's kind of where we get some more information on it. [00:51:04] Speaker C: Right. [00:51:05] Speaker B: And that's cool, too, because normally when you have an audience avatar, like Rose, like many of these companions, it's the purpose of the companion. In many cases, when you have an audience avatar, they are clueless in a way that they're like, what does that know? Because they need the information in order for them to progress within the story as well. But in this case, martha's straight up, no, I'm tired of waiting. Give me the deets. Which is a great moment for audience avatars everywhere because she's like, listen, there's 1000 plus people out there who are watching this right now who want to know what the going on. [00:51:40] Speaker A: But also, they didn't do it just. [00:51:42] Speaker B: For exposition, which is my biggest pet peeve in writing. If you're going to do exposition. You better be serving her purpose. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Exactly. You need to get this fit her character. Amazingly, yes. [00:51:58] Speaker B: Carrie. Martha. [00:52:02] Speaker C: And Martha keeps coming back. She shows up in Torchwood for a few episodes. She shows up, she comes back at the end of Donna's season. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Oh, there's a big old team up there. [00:52:13] Speaker C: Yes. And we'll talk about. So Martha is just a phenomenal companion and in some ways underrated. [00:52:26] Speaker B: I do want to play devil's advocate here. There's some problems with the Martha situation. Martha's love interest with a doctor seemingly comes out of left field. It seems as though it kind of takes away from the strength and independence of her character, which she redeems in the end, I think. But I do feel like there are certain weaknesses to her in that I feel like the writers were also kind of mourning Rose. [00:52:56] Speaker C: I could see probably for the new series, Rose was a two season companion. She was our bridge from Eccleston to know. And in turn, the Doctor's bridge through his latest regeneration, which is always kind. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Of traumatic for the Doctor. [00:53:14] Speaker C: Right. One of the things that makes it work is, and I may have mentioned this back in the previous episode before. [00:53:22] Speaker B: He goes to the bathroom. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:23] Speaker C: Right. The initial intent of the writers was for Troughton to play the Doctor, very similar to how Hardnell played. Okay. And so when he said, no, I think I'm going to do it this way, that was groundbreaking. [00:53:44] Speaker B: It's a new character. Same character. [00:53:48] Speaker C: Right. And so we have the same kind of transition here from Eccleston. To know. Tenant, rather, is quite different from Eccleston, where Eccleston is abrasive and salty. Tennant is cute and cuddly and little goofy and a little goofy until the. [00:54:12] Speaker B: End of his season when he is the time Lord victorious. [00:54:15] Speaker C: Right. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Then he gets a little rough. So we get out of Martha. Is there anything else about Martha? I mean, was it really that. [00:54:24] Speaker C: The. The. What you need to understand is that people suck? That's not quite where that sentence was going. What I was going to say is that people, fans of anything, have certain ideas about what that thing should look like. Okay. And doctor who has always been really white. [00:54:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:55] Speaker C: In part because it's a product of the time that it showed up. Martha really pushed boundaries, just her existence as a companion, which is kind of weird to jump ahead a little bit, since we're kind of on this topic, when Tennant was leaving the ods on favorite for a lot of the bookies in England was Patterson Joseph to replace him. Patterson Joseph is a person of color. And he was generally considered to be the ods on favorite. The betting houses stopped accepting bets. [00:55:37] Speaker B: Wait, are there really betting houses for who's going to be the next doctor? [00:55:41] Speaker C: There are bets. [00:55:42] Speaker A: You know what? [00:55:42] Speaker C: Betting culture is huge in England. People will bet on anything funny. Yes. And so Patterson Joseph was the kind of the ods on favorite to be the 11th Doctor. And if you're not familiar with Patterson Joseph, he's actually in season nine. Eccleston's season rather. Yeah. And on the satellite one, the game show satellite. But the woman from the weakest link. [00:56:15] Speaker B: The weakest link. [00:56:16] Speaker C: Right. He's the other dude on the weakest link. [00:56:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:56:21] Speaker C: But he was one of the things that made people think that, hey, here's the guy that was probably going to replace the Doctor. He was in an adaptation of Neil Gaiman's novel Neverware. He played the marquee and who has similar character traits to the Doctor. So a lot of fans viewed the marquee as sort of a tryout role for the Doctor. Yeah, sure. Now, as the rumor started to gain circulation and strength, the white supremacist movement in England was not happy. It was repulsive. It was gross. Just the bitterness and the bile and just the repulsive racism. Let's call it what it is, the repulsive racism bullshit was disgusting. Yeah. And he ended up not getting the role. We'll talk about that when we get. But. [00:57:24] Speaker B: So there's this problem with Martha that existed. But generally speaking, like those of us whose heads aren't up our asses with racism, those of us were able to appreciate Martha for what she was and how she was as a companion. [00:57:43] Speaker C: Right. Because she's different from Rose. Rose was a working class girl. [00:57:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:50] Speaker C: She worked in a shop. She worked in a shop. [00:57:54] Speaker B: Okay, so Martha goes through her season. [00:57:57] Speaker C: Yes. [00:57:58] Speaker B: And she's a doctor. She's fabulous. We love her. And people are toxic and gross. [00:58:02] Speaker C: And she starts to realize that her relationship with the doctor is not healthy for her. [00:58:08] Speaker A: No. [00:58:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:58:09] Speaker C: Because she recognizes that she is or at least thinks that she's in love with him. She loves him, but she sees that he is still hung up on his ex, I. E. Rose. [00:58:22] Speaker B: Rose. And she's gone through some serious stuff because the family. [00:58:26] Speaker C: Right. [00:58:28] Speaker B: That whole arc was really tough on her where she basically was treated like a lesser human because of both the time and the status that she had to have in order to watch over the doctor, wherein she became like. [00:58:42] Speaker C: And you're talking about the family of blood arc. [00:58:46] Speaker B: Yes. Not her family. [00:58:48] Speaker C: The family of blood the family of blood arc is a two parter where the doctor and Martha are on the run from these intergalactic bounty hunters and they take refuge in 19. [00:59:05] Speaker B: Six, I think. [00:59:06] Speaker C: No, it's pre World War. Just before World War I. The arch. 1913. Yeah, it's 1913 in England. And they are at a pretty typical english boarding school. The doctor is. His time Lordness has been submerged, kind of hidden away. [00:59:25] Speaker B: John Smith. [00:59:26] Speaker C: He is John Smith. Okay. [00:59:28] Speaker B: He's not just pretending to be John Smith. [00:59:30] Speaker C: He actually believes he is John Smith. [00:59:34] Speaker A: Which we'll get a little bit of background. John Smith. Whenever the doctor has to give himself a new name, he has to be a human, basically. Yeah. A regular human. Regular Jack off, as Nathan explosion would say. He uses the most colorful name ever of John Smith. [01:00:01] Speaker B: Super creative. [01:00:02] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:00:03] Speaker B: What I like about this imagination also is that it's really cool to see just how dedicated Martha is, because Martha goes into the school and acts as a cleaning. [01:00:17] Speaker C: She's a domestic. [01:00:17] Speaker B: She's a domestic for sure, even though she's a doctor. And it comes up at one point where she's like, listen, I know medicine, and you're an idiot. Like, she eventually can't take it anymore. But she's treated poorly because of her. [01:00:30] Speaker C: Race, and she's treated poorly by the. [01:00:34] Speaker B: Doctor, even the doctor, because he doesn't know her, which makes it ten times worse for her. Also because he doesn't remember Rose, which means that he's able to move on and go be interested in somebody. And the first person he decides to be interested in is some tart working at the school. [01:00:51] Speaker C: Let's not say tart, because she's not. [01:00:53] Speaker B: No, she's not. [01:00:56] Speaker A: Someone's a little bitter. [01:00:57] Speaker B: Anyway, how could you forget Martha, Martha, Martha, Martha. Anyway, he's off in love with this very nice other teacher woman, but Martha never even enters his consciousness as somebody who's an option because he's just some 1914 british man. [01:01:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:17] Speaker C: And not only is there the ethnicity question, there's the class issue. [01:01:22] Speaker A: Right. That was a huge part of that. [01:01:24] Speaker B: And that episode leads to some really dark spots. Also, regarding what happens in World War I, with the amount of kids that. [01:01:33] Speaker C: Die in World War I, that episode. [01:01:35] Speaker B: Is really, really beautiful. But then it leads to. That's one of the last arcs for Martha right before she's finally like, oh. [01:01:43] Speaker C: Before we get into the. Which is. [01:01:46] Speaker B: And. [01:01:47] Speaker C: And John Saxon is kind of the overarching subplot for Martha's season. And we won't get into that except to say that it's pretty badass once it finally stands revealed. [01:02:03] Speaker B: I watched those episodes with my roommate. As I told you, my roommate was the one who got me into Doctor who. Craig and Craig who. He sent me a message the other day with four fists, bro. It has been like, four years since we watched this together, but even now he wants to do it. It'll make sense to you later. For those of you who haven't seen. [01:02:34] Speaker A: It, yeah. [01:02:37] Speaker C: You'Re in for when I'm given my vocab quiz in my college prep class. There have been times where I'd. I don't know if the mic picked that up, but. And I can always tell who the Hoovians are because they all look up and they're a bitch. [01:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Anyway, so Martha. Martha leaves. [01:03:02] Speaker C: Martha leaves and basically on her own terms. And her position is like, look, I had this friend and she was into this guy, but this guy wasn't really into her. And I kept telling her, why are you hanging around waiting for this guy? And she never really got over him. But I realized I'm turning into my friend and I don't. [01:03:21] Speaker A: Like. [01:03:21] Speaker C: You are clearly not. Whatever your problems are, I'm clearly not what you need to get over them. And so I'm out. Yeah, she did. [01:03:35] Speaker B: And so then we go into the. [01:03:37] Speaker C: Next Christmas special, which is voyage of the damned. [01:03:40] Speaker B: Voyage of the damned. [01:03:40] Speaker C: With special guest star Kylie Minogue. Astrid Peth. And here is where we get Wilf again. [01:03:48] Speaker A: Is he in that episode? [01:03:49] Speaker C: Yes, because remember, very briefly, yes. Because remember, the Doctor and Astrid transport down to London and the Doctor's like, oh, it's going to be packed. It's going to be busy. Don't wander off. [01:04:02] Speaker B: Because Christmas, right? [01:04:03] Speaker C: Because Christmas. And they get down there and the place is empty and they're like, the doctor's like, this is not how it's supposed to be. So he goes over to the news agent and it's Wilf, and he's like, hey, where is everybody? He's like, well, where have you been? It's Christmas. And the doctor's like, yeah. And Wilf says, well, where do you think they go, Amy? Between aliens in the sky and killer robots and starships? We don't hang out. [01:04:35] Speaker B: Keeps happening because you keep having. [01:04:41] Speaker C: The. So we get the voyage of the damned, and it's an awesome story. [01:04:50] Speaker B: It's fun. And you're so excited because you're like, I don't know who this gal is, but I don't know that I've seen the Doctor this excited to be hanging out with a new person since Rose. And you're really excited, right? [01:05:04] Speaker C: And he's already talking about, come with me, come travel, come see the stars. [01:05:11] Speaker B: He's like, I know this is. [01:05:12] Speaker C: And he finally sees a future with a companion beyond Rose and beyond missing Rose, right. Which he's still trying to get over for reasons that we're not going to talk about. It doesn't come to play out that way. Which then takes us to the return of Donna. Return Donna Noble. [01:05:33] Speaker B: Donna can't handle partners regular life anymore. [01:05:36] Speaker C: Partners in crime. Exactly. We see one of the most adorable. [01:05:41] Speaker B: Doctor who villains ever. [01:05:42] Speaker C: Right? The adipose. Well, one of the things I love about this episode, that was really one of the things I love about this episode is that it's kind of mad, know, because Donna and the Doctor keep crossing paths, but just missing each, like they're looking in the wrong direction and so on. But Donna is like you said, she can't handle regular life. She regrets not choosing to go with. [01:06:14] Speaker B: The Doctor, which is really cool, because we had an entire, like, she comes back and you're like, wait a minute. Run away, bride lady. [01:06:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:20] Speaker B: You're kidding me, right? [01:06:21] Speaker A: And again, that's that longing. I don't know if they. [01:06:24] Speaker C: That wasn't the original plan. The original plan was for her to just be the one off, right. But then she's like, I can make some time in my schedule. I really enjoyed that. Maybe we should do that again. [01:06:34] Speaker B: And it is the origin of one of the best memes to come out of Doctor who, which is David Tennant leaning over a cubicle wall very excitedly. Yes. [01:06:45] Speaker C: And when they finally connect in the episode, it's hilarious. And we get to the end of the episode, and they have their conversation, you know, maybe I could come with you. And the Doctor's like, I'm just looking for a meaning. Using mate in the colloquial british term to mean a pal, a friend, a homie. Donna misinterprets that as a mate. Like, so this is a podcast. [01:07:21] Speaker B: But you know what he was doing? [01:07:25] Speaker A: Donna was not about that. [01:07:26] Speaker C: Right? She is not here for that. She's like, whoa, space man. And he's. No, no, a mate. A homie, like a friend. And she's like, oh, well, in that case, here. And she opens the boot of her car, because that's the trunk. And she's got her suitcases, her hat, she's ready to go. She has clearly been looking for the doctor for a while. He's like, what the hell is all this? Know, she's like, shut up. [01:07:53] Speaker A: Let's go. [01:07:54] Speaker C: Let's go. [01:07:55] Speaker B: There's something really cool about Donna because Donna's theme, every companion has their own kind of theme, right? [01:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:01] Speaker B: And Donna's theme is so light and airy and playful that the whole show kind of becomes more of a comedy than it was with. [01:08:11] Speaker A: But she's such a great comedian. [01:08:13] Speaker C: Right. And she's hilarious. [01:08:15] Speaker B: But then the first thing they do is they take her to Pompeii to watch the world. [01:08:21] Speaker C: Right? [01:08:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And which Karen Gillan is in that episode, who becomes a companion later on. Separate character. [01:08:28] Speaker C: We'll come back to that, too. But one of the things I love about Donna's season is that there is no romantic interest, nothing. [01:08:38] Speaker A: And that is straight up from the beginning that's put out there. She's like, I ain't into you. Like, I'm here to get out of the. Just escape. [01:08:47] Speaker C: Yeah. In some ways, she's got a similar life to Rose. [01:08:51] Speaker B: She works for a temp agency. She gets moved from place to place. [01:08:54] Speaker C: And she's looking for something. [01:08:56] Speaker B: A lot of clerical. [01:08:57] Speaker C: Yeah. And she's looking for something bigger in her life. And she recognizes after she lets the doctor kind of get away in the runaway bride, she's like, oh, damn. Maybe that was the wrong choice. [01:09:11] Speaker B: And she recognizes also that the doctor is also good for her, which is also recognized by her grandfather, which is, we've been bringing up for a Wilfred Mott. Wilfred Mott at one point even says, like, no, she's better because of. [01:09:33] Speaker A: Early man. [01:09:34] Speaker C: I know I mentioned this before I went to the bathroom, but I'm going to mention it again. Wilf. This is Wilf's second go around with Doctor who. [01:09:42] Speaker A: Right. [01:09:43] Speaker C: Because remember, he played the male lead in the second of the Peter Cushing Doctor who movies, which we will talk. [01:09:51] Speaker B: About briefly when we get to Stephen Moffat because we're still in Russell T. Davies list. [01:09:56] Speaker C: Right. [01:09:56] Speaker B: But there's some interesting things that have developed with so. So Wilfred. [01:10:02] Speaker A: We're getting there. [01:10:02] Speaker B: And Donna are related. [01:10:06] Speaker C: Donna is Wilf's grandfather or granddaughter. [01:10:09] Speaker B: Granddaughter, yeah. [01:10:10] Speaker C: And it's interesting because Wilf was not originally intended to be that recurring character. What happened is in the runaway bride, we don't see Wilf at all. He's not there. [01:10:22] Speaker A: He's not. [01:10:22] Speaker C: We have Donna's mother, who is just a heredin a shrew. She's a terrible person. Not as bad as Martha's mom, but. [01:10:36] Speaker B: Still, she's a terrible person in that she's kind of clueless. Not that she's an evil. [01:10:40] Speaker C: She treats Donna like crap. [01:10:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:42] Speaker C: Okay. [01:10:42] Speaker B: But she's not the Rashah ghoul of the universe. [01:10:46] Speaker A: But we also. [01:10:47] Speaker B: With actual literal, like, Lazarus situations. [01:10:52] Speaker C: That was a terrible analogy. But anyway. But we also have Donna's father. [01:10:56] Speaker B: She's very evil. [01:10:57] Speaker C: We also have Donna's father. But between the runaway bride and Donna returning to the series, the actor who. [01:11:07] Speaker A: Played. [01:11:13] Speaker C: Since they had already had Wilf make a couple of appearances, they brought him in as surrogate. Right, as the male figure. [01:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:22] Speaker C: As Donna's mother's recurs, he shows up several times over the course of that season. [01:11:29] Speaker B: There we are. [01:11:29] Speaker C: There we are. [01:11:30] Speaker B: So Wilfred shows up. He's now officially a major character. Well, a minor character, but a major part of Donna's life. [01:11:39] Speaker C: Right. [01:11:40] Speaker B: We go through Donna's season, which is great, which is just a great was. [01:11:45] Speaker A: With how heavy and dark ish the previous season was with Martha. [01:11:51] Speaker B: It's a mean. It's nice. But then, as comedic and as fun and as light as it was, it still had one of the darkest send offs with Donna leaving. It was really. It was mean. I guess it could be worse, but Wilfred definitely doesn't make it any. What? [01:12:17] Speaker C: The sad thing is that it's kind of out of left field. [01:12:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:23] Speaker C: Because the last two episodes, the stolen Earth and journey's end, things look dark initially, but, man, the lost moon of push. Right, well, but it's also a reunion of sorts because we're getting down to the end. We know that Tennant is coming down to the end of his time. Russell T. Davies is coming down to the end of his time as showrunner. [01:12:48] Speaker A: There's a lot of changes coming up. They're not going to end with just a. [01:12:51] Speaker B: But they bring back characters from the very beginning of Tennant's run. They bring back characters from the beginning of Eccleston's run. [01:12:57] Speaker A: They tie everything together. [01:12:58] Speaker C: They bring back Rose. They bring back basically anything. Right? [01:13:04] Speaker A: He tied up. Exactly. [01:13:06] Speaker B: He brought everybody back amazingly. And we got a second David Tennant. Right? [01:13:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:12] Speaker C: And as we send all these other companions off for a final happy ending, bad stuff goes and then bad shit happens. Right. [01:13:23] Speaker B: What's the binary? Binary? Binary. Once again, a human is put into a situation where they have to handle what the Doctor handles regularly, and they can't much like the way Rose had to in the end of her first season, put in that same situation. [01:13:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:39] Speaker B: And then we get, what? Four full movies. [01:13:45] Speaker C: Right. Because Tenet knew that, hey, it's time for me to go. Or felt that it was time for him to go. One of the things that, even though. [01:13:56] Speaker B: He didn't want to. [01:14:02] Speaker C: Sorry, guys, it was Patrick troughton who kind of advised John Pertwee. Hey, three seasons, man, don't stay too long. Tom Baker stayed seven, and as I understand it, he had typecasting issues. And so Tennant comes, does his third season, which is the season with Donna, but he wants to stay. But he also has the opportunity to play Hamlet for the Royal Shakespeare company. Yeah, so he does that. [01:14:42] Speaker A: Good. [01:14:43] Speaker C: And so in order to accommodate that, instead of another season, they do these four kind of standalone film episodes, very. [01:14:53] Speaker A: Similar to how they do Sherlock. [01:14:56] Speaker C: Kind of. [01:14:59] Speaker B: A miniseries, if you will. [01:15:01] Speaker C: Right. So you've got the next Doctor, which is a great episode. [01:15:07] Speaker B: It makes noise. See? Sonic. [01:15:10] Speaker C: Right. And you've got planet of the dead with Michelle Ryan playing lady Christina de Souza. That's the bus episode. [01:15:20] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. That's my actual least favorite David Tennant episode. But many people like that one. [01:15:25] Speaker C: I thought it was fun. The waters of Mars. Love the waters of Mars, which is brutal. That's where we get the Time Lord victorious and kind of the 10th Doctor realizing, hey, I'm not the survivor, I'm the winner. And that's where he's like, oh, damn, I've kind of gone too far here. Yeah, we're not going to spoil that for you. [01:15:49] Speaker B: There's a common character theme in Doctor who, though, much in the same way that Star Trek has the prime directive. Doctor who has fixed points in time. [01:15:59] Speaker C: Right. [01:16:00] Speaker B: And the Doctor regularly says, and this comes up in the Donna, the first episode with Donna as an official companion. There are fixed points in time. [01:16:09] Speaker C: I can't change. [01:16:10] Speaker B: I can't change. They're going to happen just the way it goes. No matter what I do, the world's going to go this way and there's nothing we can do about it. [01:16:17] Speaker C: Right. [01:16:18] Speaker B: And the Time Lord victorious is the point where he's so far removed from all of his companions and everything, that this is what happens. And this is a co recurring theme that we see later on in other seasons, too. [01:16:29] Speaker C: When he's away, the Doctor needs a companion, he needs someone to ground him, to keep him grounded. [01:16:35] Speaker B: And he's a little too powerful. [01:16:37] Speaker C: Right. I just sometimes wish it wasn't a contemporary young british woman. Yeah, but that's a separate. [01:16:44] Speaker A: We'll get into something similar with how they are casting the Doctors. [01:16:49] Speaker C: Right. [01:16:49] Speaker A: And a big change with when Capaldi takes over. But again, we'll get there when we get. [01:16:53] Speaker C: We'll come to there. [01:16:53] Speaker B: Right. [01:16:54] Speaker C: And then. So after the waters of Mars. We have the end of time, which is the. [01:17:00] Speaker B: Is that where we bring in what's his name as president? Lord President. [01:17:05] Speaker C: Yes. Timothy Dalton. [01:17:06] Speaker B: Timothy Dalton, yes. [01:17:07] Speaker C: As Rassalon. Now, one thing that we forgot to mention within the. It's been alluded to twice. Once from you, B Rom, and once from you when Donna goes to Pompeii with the see real quick. We see you mentioned Karen Gill and Brian, whom we will see again soon. [01:17:31] Speaker A: Nebula in guardians of the galaxy. [01:17:33] Speaker C: And we see Peter Capaldi as our marble merchant, whose name escapes me at the moment, but that becomes relevant once he takes over as twelve. Yeah, very brilliant. I don't know why I said very brilliant. That's not really a thing. You're either brilliant or you're not. And in this case, I was, he was. [01:17:59] Speaker B: However. [01:18:00] Speaker C: He was, I was not. [01:18:02] Speaker A: So was. [01:18:07] Speaker B: The. [01:18:08] Speaker C: So we get to the end. The end of time. [01:18:10] Speaker B: The end of time. We get Wilford back. [01:18:12] Speaker C: We get Wilf back. And I get strongest comparison and I get shattered into a pieces. [01:18:19] Speaker B: So, like, saying I don't want to go is bad, but the worst thing in the world. [01:18:26] Speaker A: So this is a podcast. Bryce in action. [01:18:29] Speaker C: And that's some. That's not even a proper british salute. [01:18:34] Speaker B: Yeah, he does this one. There's that great moment where the tv talks to Wilfred and she's like, yeah, you were a soldier, you served in World War II, but you didn't kill anybody. And Wilfred's like, offended, but also like, he's a little hurt. No, he's offended by that because he knows he means it as an insult. But he also is like, excuse me, you say that as if it's a bad thing. [01:18:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:59] Speaker C: Right. [01:19:00] Speaker B: And it's a beautiful testament to who Wilfred is, character. [01:19:04] Speaker C: And it's so good. [01:19:05] Speaker B: He is. [01:19:06] Speaker A: He's not really necessarily a companion, but damn if he wasn't one of the best companions of the show. [01:19:13] Speaker B: If Wilfred just came back for another episode, which would be wonderful, how awesome. [01:19:17] Speaker C: Would Capaldi and Wilfred have loved that? [01:19:20] Speaker B: Grumpy. It would have been like grumpy old Nick. Can I just get that special? [01:19:24] Speaker C: Grumpy old Time Lords. [01:19:26] Speaker B: Yeah, grumpy old Time Lords. [01:19:28] Speaker C: Well, that was kind of the Christmas special we got, wasn't. [01:19:33] Speaker B: Wilfred comes in and we close up. We close up a weird loose end we didn't know we had, which is the Saxton story. [01:19:40] Speaker C: Right. [01:19:41] Speaker B: Which is one of my favorite things about Russell T. Davies is that he ties up loose ends that you forget about. Yo. [01:19:47] Speaker C: Totally, right. Going back season, Tennant leaves on probably one of the strongest notes. We get a final goodbye with all the companions. We kind of see where they are. Including tying in some things from previous Christmas specials. Yeah. [01:20:08] Speaker B: Because this is a send off for Tenant, but it's also a send off for Russell Davis. [01:20:12] Speaker C: Right, exactly. And so we get. [01:20:16] Speaker B: We didn't mention the library. [01:20:22] Speaker C: Do you want to talk about that? We probably need to. [01:20:25] Speaker B: We need to talk about this. [01:20:26] Speaker A: Okay. [01:20:26] Speaker B: So we get a proper send off, but before these movies, there is a two part special. [01:20:31] Speaker A: No. [01:20:31] Speaker B: Who's in that companion in that episode? [01:20:34] Speaker C: Yeah, it's Donna. [01:20:35] Speaker B: He has Donna in those. [01:20:36] Speaker C: Donna is in. So we have the silence in the library two parter. And this is where we get introduced to River Song, played by Alex Kingston. And I will tell you for free. Do I need to say anything more? [01:20:52] Speaker B: No, you're good. [01:20:55] Speaker A: Nailed it. [01:20:57] Speaker B: Picture of her in his lunchbox. [01:21:01] Speaker C: Okay. When you say it like that, makes me sound like some kind of pervert. [01:21:05] Speaker B: Or a twelve year old. One of the two. Which I suppose are kind of not mutually exclusive. [01:21:11] Speaker C: Have you talked to the average twelve year old? Yeah, you know me. [01:21:16] Speaker B: Just. Hey, are you twelve? Let's have a conversation. Your face is so red. [01:21:21] Speaker C: To be fair, that's not even the strangest thing you've ever said. [01:21:24] Speaker A: No, not at all. [01:21:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:26] Speaker A: Anyway, you didn't really say that, though. [01:21:27] Speaker B: You're just kind of. Carry on. All right, so we get River Song. Alex Kingston comes in. [01:21:36] Speaker C: Yes. [01:21:36] Speaker A: She has this finality to. [01:21:38] Speaker C: Well, she clearly knows the Doctor. [01:21:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:44] Speaker C: And she says so, but he doesn't know her. [01:21:46] Speaker B: And she also has something that we have never seen anyone else have. And that is that she has her own sonic screwdriver. And you're like, what? This is so, because your first thought is, oh, my God, is this another galafran? Is this another Time Lord? And you don't really know where she's coming from, but she knows something that the Doctor doesn't. [01:22:09] Speaker A: She knows a lot of something. [01:22:10] Speaker B: And she whispers something to the Doctor that puts a look on his face that is absolutely like. It's this beautiful combination of fear and realization and doom and uncertainty. [01:22:21] Speaker A: Uncertainty which he's never had before. [01:22:24] Speaker C: Well, he's always the smartest guy in the room. [01:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:27] Speaker A: He's got this confident attitude. [01:22:29] Speaker B: And that's something that Riversong provides that no other companion really can, is that she can be the smartest person in the room. And when she's not, it's almost like, wait, something's wrong. [01:22:39] Speaker A: Something's not right here. [01:22:40] Speaker C: Yeah, well, and the library two parter was written by Stephen Moffat. [01:22:46] Speaker B: Yes. [01:22:47] Speaker A: Which Moffat's been around first or second season of the boot. Yeah. Made it happen again. [01:22:58] Speaker C: Well, Moffat's going to be the new showrunner. [01:23:01] Speaker B: Right. [01:23:01] Speaker C: And he's written for Eccleston. He's written for Tennant. [01:23:06] Speaker A: He's been around. So he's not newcomer by. [01:23:08] Speaker C: And he had written stuff during the dead period. [01:23:11] Speaker B: Moffat is a. He's a. He's a legacy writer, for sure. [01:23:14] Speaker C: Oh, definitely at this point. [01:23:16] Speaker B: And he writes these beautiful episodes. The concept of the library is brilliant. It's very high science fiction. [01:23:23] Speaker A: There's also one of my favorite episodes was the Fireplace episode. [01:23:29] Speaker C: The girl in the fireplace. [01:23:30] Speaker A: Girl in the fireplace. [01:23:31] Speaker B: Fireplace episode. [01:23:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:34] Speaker B: Oh, man, you just missed her. [01:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And it was brutal. And it was. [01:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Dr. Raven has a lot of really sad, heartbreaking, heartbreaking goodbyes, which we bring. Those come back too. [01:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:53] Speaker B: What I like about. I mean, because we've discussed before between us that I have some issues with Moffat, but one of the things that I do really like is that many of the things that he introduced in Russell T. Davies runs, he does bring back. He brings the girl in the fireplace characters back in Capaldi's first episode, the mechanical people. And he doesn't bring the Vashti Narada back, but he does bring River Song back, obviously. But the creatures that they're worrying about in the library. Hey, who turned out the lights? Hey, who turned out the lights? Hey, who turned out the lights? There is expert uncanny Valley moments of like this makes stop a theme. Stop it. And he's very, very good at that. [01:24:48] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:24:48] Speaker B: Which, I mean, River Song is very important. But that episode has so much going for it just as far as like a really quality episode of Doctor who. And I feel like if you're going to start even with eleven, because many people start at the 11th hour, which we're about to talk about, but I think you really owe it to yourself to watch those two episodes to see at least a little bit of where. What Tenant is coming from. [01:25:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:15] Speaker B: Where eleven coming from and where Tenant took it. [01:25:18] Speaker C: Well, are we good on the library? [01:25:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we're good on the library. [01:25:24] Speaker A: We'll build up more on that as we go along. [01:25:27] Speaker C: So during the end of time, we have our regeneration sequence. Tennant regenerates into Matt Smith and it takes the Tardis of some heartbreaking shit. Yes, the TardIs. [01:25:41] Speaker A: I'm going to drink a little bit right now. [01:25:44] Speaker C: Yes. [01:25:48] Speaker A: Okay, let's do this. [01:25:52] Speaker B: I don't want to go, which really sucks. [01:25:55] Speaker A: If you haven't. Well, there's a certain movie that's out right now. Where? [01:25:59] Speaker B: I don't want to go. I'm sorry. [01:26:02] Speaker A: I don't want to talk about it. [01:26:03] Speaker C: I'm going to punch all you dudes in the nuts if you don't shut up. [01:26:09] Speaker B: It said the button. Come on. Today is not the day. Today. Yeah. [01:26:17] Speaker A: Fuck you. [01:26:19] Speaker C: God. Anyway, Tardis. [01:26:23] Speaker B: I don't feel so good. [01:26:27] Speaker A: Any more booze. [01:26:28] Speaker C: I hate you. Anyway. [01:26:34] Speaker A: Well played, sir. [01:26:37] Speaker B: Anyway, so David Tennant has a regeneration. [01:26:42] Speaker C: He regenerates into Matt Smith. The Tardis is. [01:26:47] Speaker B: Blown up, doesn't handle the regeneration. [01:26:51] Speaker C: The thing about the regenerations is it is a particularly violent kind of thing. [01:26:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:56] Speaker C: It is a violent. It is unnatural. [01:26:59] Speaker A: You explode. [01:27:00] Speaker B: Unnatural in its own way. [01:27:01] Speaker A: The Time Lord explodes for Time Lords. [01:27:03] Speaker B: It's a cheat. [01:27:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:07] Speaker B: I think that's a big factor in. [01:27:08] Speaker C: It, but it's not this violent in the classic series, right? And so, I don't know, time war. [01:27:20] Speaker B: There'S only one of them. [01:27:22] Speaker C: Yeah. But anyway, there's a violence to these regenerations that completely fucks up the TardIS. And behind the scenes, of course, it's a convenient excuse to redesign the TaRdis and blah, blah. [01:27:44] Speaker B: Which is bigger on the inside than the outside. [01:27:47] Speaker C: Right. [01:27:48] Speaker B: And the exterior, which sometimes Matt Smith is not a clean tardIs, is it? Is this the clean one? [01:27:55] Speaker C: What do you mean, a clean one? [01:27:57] Speaker B: One of the Doctors has a filthy, damaged, broken down wood, is decaying Tardis. [01:28:03] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:28:05] Speaker B: There is a newness to Eleven's TARDIS that is represented in both color and the badge is back on and the exterior changes per Doctor as well, which. [01:28:21] Speaker A: Is kind of cool. I dig that. [01:28:23] Speaker B: Okay. It's a thing. Yeah. [01:28:26] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. Which kind of fits in with the theme of we have a new doctor, we have a new showrunner, we have Interior. [01:28:34] Speaker C: New companions. [01:28:35] Speaker A: Companions. Companion. Companions. [01:28:37] Speaker B: Companion. [01:28:38] Speaker A: At first. We'll get in there. [01:28:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:28:41] Speaker A: And in fact, I just rewatched the. [01:28:43] Speaker B: First episode of your scottish fry, something. [01:28:49] Speaker C: That whole sequence with the food is fantastic and I love it. [01:28:52] Speaker B: One of the best. [01:28:54] Speaker C: And it always gets cut. It always gets it trimmed down, because the 11th hour was one of those extended episodes, extended by about ten minutes, five to ten minutes. And on subsequent rebroadcasts, they still have to fit it into the regular time slot. And so they cut out that. They cut out the bit with the apple after amy has grown up. [01:29:17] Speaker B: The apple's such a big deal. [01:29:18] Speaker A: Such a huge thing, because it's one. [01:29:20] Speaker B: Of those instances much like when rose goes away for like a know, except it gives you something that I don't think many people it makes you appreciate something about Ivy pond that I don't think a lot of people really give her credit for. And that's the fact that she was kind of crazy for like twelve years of her life where everyone was like, there is no madman in a box. There is no crazy guy coming in and taking over your kitchen. That never happened. You're insane, Amy. And she's kind of ostracized. [01:29:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:29:52] Speaker A: And by the time the doctor comes back, she kind of like talked herself out of it. Like, okay, maybe I did see some stuff. And then boom, he's back. She's like, well, what the fuck? [01:30:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So 11th hour Matt Smith shows up. We have a new doctor. [01:30:14] Speaker A: He's trying to find his new clothes. He's kind of trying to fit. [01:30:17] Speaker B: He's like, I'm going to rebrand right now. And he kind of knows the shtick. And as an audience, we kind of know the shtick. [01:30:24] Speaker A: But then also because there's the new writing and the new everything, the show itself takes on a new tone. [01:30:30] Speaker C: And this is where modern. [01:30:32] Speaker B: And they get a huge boost in budget. [01:30:35] Speaker A: Yeah, big time. [01:30:37] Speaker B: You can tell that the camera work, the set work, the production design, special effects, the special effects, especially practical effects, everything. [01:30:45] Speaker C: And this is where the show really takes off internationally. I mean, it had been a hit in England, it was becoming a hit here. But, man, it's underground. But now it's starting to come exponentially. [01:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah, this is the point when we start inviting doctors to San Diego Comic. [01:31:01] Speaker A: Con and they get to Hall H. Yeah, they do. [01:31:06] Speaker B: Which for those of you who don't know, Hall H is the big room. Biggest room. [01:31:10] Speaker C: The 5000, 5000 seats. [01:31:14] Speaker A: People wait for days, literally. [01:31:18] Speaker B: That lane goes from the convention center, like exposition floor, all the way outside. [01:31:25] Speaker A: Around the perimeter, and they'll cut off the line. No, you guys can't sleep out here for two days. [01:31:30] Speaker B: Yeah, we cut it off. They're like, this is for a safety concern. [01:31:33] Speaker A: That's how big it. [01:31:38] Speaker C: We. Of course, again, just like with Russell T. Davies, we have an overarching subplot that cracks in time. We have a companion in Amy who, even though, like B. Rom said she kind of talked herself out of believing in the Doctor, is still obsessed with him to the point where she's throwing her game at him. And again, the Doctor is like, because again, alien, human. [01:32:10] Speaker B: They keep that going for a long time. There's a certain, like, wait, flirtatious kind. [01:32:15] Speaker A: Of thing going on. [01:32:16] Speaker B: Who are you into? Lady? Like, even after Amy eventually comes to a point where she has a child, there's a certain, like, wait a minute, who's the father? [01:32:33] Speaker C: There's a degree of uncertainty as to where Amy's true affections lie. [01:32:39] Speaker A: Right. [01:32:39] Speaker C: Because we meet her boyfriend Rory in the 11th hour. [01:32:45] Speaker B: Matt doesn't believe it's him. He thinks it's the other. [01:32:48] Speaker C: Right, Matt? Yeah. The Doctor, rather does not believe that Rory is the boyfriend. He thinks that it's handsome Jeff, whom we've met earlier. [01:32:58] Speaker B: I wish handsome Jeff had been. Had been the person in let's kill Hitler. How great would that have been? [01:33:05] Speaker C: Well, the thing that I like about the exchange was like, what about handsome Jeff? Rory's response. Oh, him. [01:33:16] Speaker A: Okay. The Roman. [01:33:19] Speaker C: Yeah. Poor Rory. [01:33:22] Speaker B: Poor Rory for a minute. [01:33:24] Speaker A: Many other handsome Jeff, many more. [01:33:29] Speaker C: But we get Amy over the course of that first season, we get Amy's growth too, as she comes to realize, no, actually, I do love Rory. Rory's my jam. Rory's my guy. [01:33:39] Speaker B: Well, there's a great moment in. What's the episode? No, no, blank, blank. When a good man goes to war. [01:33:51] Speaker C: It's called when a good man's. It's called a good man goes to war. [01:33:55] Speaker B: What's the phrase before that, though? Something? [01:33:57] Speaker C: When a good man goes to war, angels run. [01:33:59] Speaker B: Angels run? [01:33:59] Speaker C: No, demons run. [01:34:00] Speaker A: Demons run. [01:34:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:01] Speaker C: So that's not the name of the episode. [01:34:03] Speaker B: No, but there's a location in a good man goes to war called demons. [01:34:07] Speaker A: Demons run. [01:34:07] Speaker C: Right. [01:34:08] Speaker B: And it's because of the phrase demons run, when a good man goes to war. And many people within the fandom say, like, the good man is not the Doctor. [01:34:17] Speaker C: Not at all. [01:34:18] Speaker B: It's Rory. Because Rory shows up like a fucking. Like a fucking badass. He looks down. The most advanced iteration of a cyberman that has been evolved or upgraded that we've ever seen and is like, you tell me where my wife is, because I have to talk to over there, and I'm running the show right now. I have two questions. [01:34:41] Speaker C: What are they? Where's my wife? [01:34:44] Speaker A: Where's my wife? [01:34:45] Speaker C: And shall I repeat the question? [01:34:48] Speaker A: As shit blows up in the background. [01:34:49] Speaker B: Behind them, destroying shit. Like, we are the Doctor, but he takes a business. Because the Doctor at this point is like, you know, which is such a cool thing because many people accuse the Doctor of turning his companions into weapons. [01:35:03] Speaker C: Right, well, and this is, as we get into. This is into the second season with Matt Smith. [01:35:09] Speaker B: Right, sorry. [01:35:09] Speaker C: Right. [01:35:11] Speaker A: Rory's the fucking man. But just again, that goes back to that writing of where. Yeah, the show is called Doctor who revolves around the Doctor, but his companions take such a huge Amy and roaring really show. And this season, these seasons that they were in, there were like. This was almost their show. [01:35:31] Speaker C: Yes. And we get more river song. Some of the things that were alluded to in the library episodes with ten start to come to pass. [01:35:44] Speaker B: Yes. [01:35:45] Speaker C: In the episode. Yeah, in the maze of the dead. [01:35:51] Speaker A: And there's so much going on because. [01:35:53] Speaker B: Then we won't spoil exploring. [01:35:56] Speaker C: We start to get more of River Song in this first season with Matt Smith, with the 11th Doctor and some of the things that she alluded to or that were alluded to in the library episodes start to come to pass in the forest of the dead episodes, which we won't spoil for you, but. [01:36:16] Speaker B: It does have the guy from Game of Thrones who plays, who plays Danares, the series guard. [01:36:24] Speaker A: Oh, there are so many people in. [01:36:28] Speaker C: Because Britain. [01:36:30] Speaker A: Because Britain. Everybody in Game of Thrones is in. Harry Potter is also in Doctor who. [01:36:36] Speaker C: In Harry Potter, Game of Thrones. [01:36:40] Speaker A: Anyway, there's so many. Anyways, lots. [01:36:42] Speaker B: But lots of great. And that episode is fantastic. [01:36:45] Speaker C: Yes. And this is River's first appearance with the 11th Doctor and kind of sets things in motion that we're going to see over the course of the remaining episodes on the season for a couple of seasons. [01:37:04] Speaker B: Because while there is like the crack in space and time and the eye patch lady, while those things start to show up repeatedly and you go, what's going on? What's going on? What's going on? The overarching. What the hell is the deal with Rory? What the hell is the deal with River Song? Question is multiple seasons. It is the eleven story. [01:37:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:37:30] Speaker C: In a lot of ways. And their chemistry is fantastic. [01:37:34] Speaker A: God, they're so good. [01:37:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:37] Speaker B: I still have not gone back and watched the River Song order on YouTube, which is something that I think everyone should realize also is that there is a specific order that Riversong, because she is a time traveler herself, she experiences the story of Doctor who in a very different order. [01:37:55] Speaker A: That's part of the whole thing. I mean, semi spoilers, but not really. [01:37:59] Speaker C: She makes that point in the library episode. So I don't think we're spoiling much. [01:38:05] Speaker A: But it's very cool how that's such a new concept to do in a show or movie like that, where not. [01:38:11] Speaker B: Often do you see two time travelers that are meeting each other repeatedly at different points in their own times. [01:38:20] Speaker A: Right. [01:38:20] Speaker C: And one of the things, and I know that moffat gets, gets a lot of grief towards the end of his time as showrunner, but he keeps all of River's songs. Oh, that's his, that's his baby. And he has to keep that going, kind of as on the fly and keeps it all straight. And by the way, diaries of River Song, big finish episodes. She meets other doctors, which she leads. [01:38:53] Speaker A: To in the show a little bit. [01:38:54] Speaker B: Does she meet Jim the fish? Is there a big finish Jim the Fish episode? [01:39:02] Speaker C: I've only listened to the first season. I've not heard two and three. [01:39:06] Speaker B: Now, does Alex Kingston come in for the big. [01:39:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:39:11] Speaker B: How are you going to have the diaries of River Song without River? [01:39:13] Speaker A: That's the great thing about these big fish audio dramas is that they bring in the original actors. [01:39:19] Speaker C: Yeah, they bring in the actors and. [01:39:21] Speaker A: They mix and match again. I haven't listened to them yet, but. [01:39:26] Speaker C: That, just like I've listened to a bunch of them, I've listened to a bunch of the 8th Doctor ones, I've listened to the war Doctor. I've listened to diaries of River Song. [01:39:40] Speaker A: Which just makes everything else, I'm sure just on the tv show, just hit harder. [01:39:46] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:39:47] Speaker B: Which is what this show ends up. What is it, our second or third episode, we talked about this sometimes those ancillary outside exterior parts of a universe, like with clone wars to Star wars, when those things can make things even better for you, why not expose yourself to those things? [01:40:07] Speaker A: And that happened with. Go a little slightly off topic. Infinity wars. People are asking, hey, I haven't seen all the marvel stuff. What should I watch to get ready for this movie? And due to certain scenes, I'm like Spider man, homecoming. Because it just strengthens that you need. [01:40:23] Speaker B: To know him and you need to know he is with bond with a. [01:40:26] Speaker A: Certain character when a certain thing happens. And then I need to drink more right now. [01:40:38] Speaker B: Anyways, so we got Matt Smith, we've got Amy, we've got Rory the Roman. [01:40:46] Speaker C: And Amy and Rory stay as companions for two and a half seasons. They are the longest tenured companions. And really, that's all one story. Yeah, you've got the season finales, the Pandorica open, but it's still Pandorica open. [01:41:05] Speaker A: Builds off of everything else that happened before. [01:41:07] Speaker B: Something borrows. [01:41:08] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. It all ties together. And when we get to the end of their story, it is gut wrenching. [01:41:21] Speaker A: It is the most brutal. [01:41:23] Speaker B: I don't even want to tell you the name of the episode where they leave on because we don't need to. No, we don't need to, but I'll tell you. And it's this great moment for both the Doctor and River as the Doctor, because is great. They tie up where the Doctor loses it. He's a mess. And river handles it for him. As he's sitting there, a wreck on the ground. River just stares, straightforward where she needs to be, looking to make sure everything's going to be safe for him and for her. And I don't think many people notice, but for those of you who know what I'm talking about or have seen that episode, river doesn't look away. [01:42:08] Speaker A: No. [01:42:08] Speaker B: And it's a great testament to her. [01:42:11] Speaker C: Because what she's losing, too, and it's every bit as painful for her as it is for the Doctor. [01:42:16] Speaker B: Now, have you seen the deleted scene where they deal with Rory's father, where. [01:42:22] Speaker C: They just storyboarded it? Yeah. [01:42:24] Speaker A: Rory's father, by the way, is Mr. Weasley. [01:42:27] Speaker B: Mr. Weasley. And he's fantastic. [01:42:30] Speaker A: Oh, man. That dinosaur episode was so the laptop on a spaceship. [01:42:36] Speaker B: I just got a dinosaur doctor who book from. I think I got it. I might have gotten it at. [01:42:40] Speaker C: Oh, cool. [01:42:41] Speaker B: No, no, I bought it at that used. [01:42:42] Speaker A: No. [01:42:42] Speaker B: Store we found in Burbank. [01:42:43] Speaker A: That's right. You did. Yeah, we found it. Cool. Yeah, we bought all three. No, we bought all three of their copies of the simmerillion. [01:42:54] Speaker B: Yeah, we did. [01:42:55] Speaker A: I bought one. I bought one for my roommate Clay, who's super into Lord of the Rings and Tolkien universe and all that good stuff. And then Bryce bought. [01:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah. This old used bookstore is closing down after like 30 something years. [01:43:08] Speaker A: He's retiring. Not as a bad guy. He's retiring. [01:43:11] Speaker C: Yeah, 50 years. [01:43:12] Speaker B: 50 years. [01:43:13] Speaker C: 50 years. [01:43:15] Speaker A: And he's like, I'm going to retire. I'm going to not hang out at the store. I'm going to go explore a little. [01:43:20] Speaker B: Bit, family a little bit. [01:43:21] Speaker A: And we're like, yeah, dude, for you. [01:43:24] Speaker B: Thanks for letting us peruse your entire Sci-Fi and fantasy section as well as some script stuff. There was a lot of really cool stuff. [01:43:31] Speaker A: I was kind of bummed, but they. [01:43:32] Speaker B: Were some old doctor who books because. [01:43:34] Speaker C: Oh, nice. [01:43:35] Speaker B: And I don't know why. I haven't even gotten to read either of the ones I own yet, but I have this just love for these smelly old paperback doctor who books that have that great paper smell. [01:43:46] Speaker A: Paper old paper smell that you can't get on a fucking kindle. [01:43:49] Speaker B: No, you can't kindle users anyway. [01:43:52] Speaker A: But read your stuff how you should. [01:43:53] Speaker B: Read it, how you need to if you need to consume your media in any way you can. We don't do it. [01:43:57] Speaker A: You are missing on that smell. [01:43:59] Speaker C: Almost gatekeep. You there? [01:44:01] Speaker A: It's a there. I don't care. [01:44:06] Speaker B: Anyway, so Matt Smith has Rory and Amy. They've really got solidity as their whole story arc was. Amy and Rory are just finished up beautifully. And you're great moments because you lose. [01:44:24] Speaker A: Three seasons worth of solid storytelling, character driven. [01:44:27] Speaker B: But you've lost them, like, lost Rory before in ways that. [01:44:32] Speaker A: And you're like, there goes. [01:44:35] Speaker B: I don't want to go into details, but then there's, like, little moments in the background that you don't realize until. [01:44:40] Speaker A: They bring it out and you're like, son of a bitch. [01:44:42] Speaker B: Moffat. Really? [01:44:44] Speaker A: That was. That is. [01:44:45] Speaker B: Has a lot more. I concur, a lot more skill in hiding things than I think many people. [01:44:50] Speaker A: Which I think he learned, including myself. [01:44:52] Speaker B: Have given him credit for. Okay, so we've established very well that river and Amy and Rory are very much a major part of this particular. [01:45:03] Speaker C: Doctor story, for sure. [01:45:06] Speaker B: But there's also, before we go all the way into the end game for this, because we haven't even started talking about Clara. I love Clara and I know you don't, but before we get to that, I'd like to talk you. [01:45:20] Speaker A: We feel you on this. [01:45:21] Speaker B: Before we get to that, I'd like to talk about the Christmas specials because I know you guys are really special. [01:45:27] Speaker C: Well, since we talked about them with each of the other Christmas specials, let's take a minute and talk about the Christmas specials here with the 11th Doctor. So at the end of the 11th Doctor's first story, after the Pandorica open story, we have a Christmas carol special. [01:45:59] Speaker A: That's fair. [01:45:59] Speaker C: And I'll bring up the other one later. Right, but it's Amy and Rory's honeymoon. I don't think that's too big a spoiler, hardly. But it's just like Charles Dickens. It is a, you know, or a Christmas Carol, rather. And Michael Gamban, whom we know as Dumbledore. Dumbledore from the later. Harry Potter. Harry Potter's second. [01:46:27] Speaker B: Did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire? [01:46:30] Speaker C: Was elitianism talking about brilliant as Kazran Sardik, one of my favorite Doctor lines in the entire series, the Doctor has gone back and he's talking to young, like, ten year old Kazran, and he says, and what do boys say in the face of danger? What's that, mummy? And I just love that. [01:46:59] Speaker B: Within that same episode, there's another really great line. Because isn't that the same episode wherein he says, 900 years of time in space and I've never met anybody who isn't. [01:47:09] Speaker A: Wasn't important. [01:47:10] Speaker C: Yes. That line. [01:47:11] Speaker B: It says so much about the Doctor. [01:47:14] Speaker A: And it encompasses everything. But also just like. Yeah. [01:47:20] Speaker B: Also in the Dickens regard, Dickens has an affinity for naming people based on what their character is. And Kazran Sardik is such a dickensy name. [01:47:30] Speaker C: Yes, it is. [01:47:32] Speaker B: Dickensy name. It sounds like a german dish. [01:47:37] Speaker C: The casting for the entire episode is magnificent. [01:47:41] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:47:42] Speaker C: So there's that. [01:47:44] Speaker B: And it's by far, for me, one of the most christmassy episodes, as absolutely every. [01:47:49] Speaker C: It says so right on the. [01:47:55] Speaker B: Know. It's not just like, well, there's an invasion happening and there happened to be Santa Claus. [01:47:58] Speaker A: No, it's very. [01:48:00] Speaker B: It's tied with the other really super Christmassy one, which is weirdly not Christmassy, though. Even though it's got Santa Claus. [01:48:09] Speaker C: Right. [01:48:10] Speaker B: We'll get there. We'll get there. [01:48:12] Speaker C: Then after the 11th Doctor's second season, we get. No, the Doctor. The widow in the wardrobe. [01:48:19] Speaker A: Wardrobe. [01:48:20] Speaker C: Which is very much just like. It sounds a Narnia kind of knockoff. [01:48:26] Speaker A: So good, too. [01:48:27] Speaker C: Which has another of my favorite lines. I'm not going to say it because I'm going to start crying. [01:48:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:48:34] Speaker B: I'd like to know. I don't know. [01:48:36] Speaker C: Okay, so kind of the subplot. Yeah. World War II, the Doctor meets Madge Allwell. Although Mag doesn't realize that she's met the doctor. She's some weird dude in a space know, takes him to the police box, whatever. Her husband is a pilot in World War II, and he dies just before the Christmas holiday. And she can't bring herself to tell her children because how can you? How can you tell them something like that on Christmas, though? [01:49:11] Speaker A: On Christmas, exactly. [01:49:12] Speaker C: And so they're out to visit their uncle's house, and they're expecting the caretaker. And there's the doctor. [01:49:18] Speaker A: There's the doctor. [01:49:19] Speaker C: He's tricked out the house. It's so awesome. It's just crazy. And Madge is losing her mind. Finally, she sends the kids out. She's like, we're leaving. Go wait outside. And she's like, let's get the doctor. And she tells him what's what. She's like, look, their father is dead. And they don't know because I don't know how to tell them. And she's just tearing at him. He's like. And he says, how can you let them be happy now when you know they're going to be sad later. And the answer, of course is because they're going to be sad later. [01:49:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And you're just like, God, dear. That fucking. [01:49:59] Speaker B: You have to let them be correct. They're going to be sad later. Yes. Beautiful. [01:50:04] Speaker A: And that's the doctor. Yeah, that hit home. That hit hard. [01:50:10] Speaker B: There's so many great lines. [01:50:12] Speaker C: Yes. The 11th doctor is my favorite. [01:50:16] Speaker A: Same. He's my first. But also. Yeah, just those lines. And that's when I got into it. There's a lot of shit going on, like my personal life and everything just going on. [01:50:28] Speaker B: I feel like the doctor has something for everybody for a time in their life. [01:50:33] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:50:34] Speaker B: Eccleston's line, just this once, everybody lives. [01:50:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:40] Speaker B: Like for me, I'm like, yes, please. Just really? Because that was a really tough time for me too. I love this show. [01:50:49] Speaker C: Okay, next Christmas when Charlotte and I started dating, I dialed her in with eleven for sure. And the relationship between the doctor and river really resonated for us because she was still living in Illinois and so we were having to travel and do a lot of telecommunicating. [01:51:13] Speaker A: Time travel. [01:51:13] Speaker B: Yeah, we understood weird planet. [01:51:20] Speaker C: Right? The weird thing, storm cage. We understood Charlote was never in prison. Charlote was not in prison. Although Illinois in the winter feels like. Anyway, sorry to our friends in Illinois. So, yeah, so you're right. There is something there for something in the doctors, for everybody and for every time in your life. [01:51:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:51:42] Speaker C: So then we get to. [01:51:43] Speaker A: I want to hug Matt Smith. [01:51:46] Speaker B: Dude, we can't tell Matt, Paige and Deanna, right? [01:51:49] Speaker C: I will tell you that dude will never buy a drink in my presence for the entirety of his life. Anyway, so we get to the next Christmas special and it's the snowmen. And this one is unusual because it happens in the middle of the. Because we. It takes off right after the end of Amy and Rory's story. And the doctor is grief stricken and. [01:52:19] Speaker B: He'S been grief stricken for quite a while. [01:52:23] Speaker A: Couple thousand years. [01:52:24] Speaker B: What it is, couple hundred years. [01:52:26] Speaker C: Well, long enough. [01:52:28] Speaker A: This is one of the longest running doctors because he has been in the Matt Smith form for form of Matt Smith a hell of a long time. More than any other doctor. It's been a couple hundred, couple thousand. [01:52:44] Speaker B: I think he winds up being somewhere between 1101 400 by the end. [01:52:49] Speaker A: And for a while you don't know until about. [01:52:51] Speaker B: But they say like he's been leaving grumpy up above his victorian London box for a while because this is where. [01:52:58] Speaker C: Not hundreds of years because the pattern Oster gang, Madame Vastra, Jenny and Strax. [01:53:07] Speaker B: I'm the clever one, you're the potato one. [01:53:10] Speaker C: Yes. [01:53:11] Speaker B: One of my. [01:53:13] Speaker C: They know him, and they know he's there. [01:53:16] Speaker A: And they've been around for a while. [01:53:17] Speaker B: But I think he did a little traveling prior to it. [01:53:21] Speaker A: Sounds like he knew them meeting that. [01:53:23] Speaker B: Well, he met them before, because that's not their introduction, is it? [01:53:27] Speaker C: No. They show up first in a good man goes to war. Yeah, that's right. [01:53:33] Speaker B: But at that point, species shows up in Amy and Rory's earlier. In Amy and Rory's time period. [01:53:39] Speaker C: Oh, no. The Solarians are classic monsters, but they. [01:53:42] Speaker B: Show up for Matt Smith at least, right? They brought him back. Many, many of these characters, except for maybe the silence, are all old. Old. [01:53:53] Speaker C: And with the snowmen, we get Clara. [01:53:58] Speaker B: Yes. [01:53:58] Speaker C: Again. Now, this is actually the second time we've seen Clara. [01:54:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:54:02] Speaker C: The first time we see was asylum. [01:54:04] Speaker B: Of the Daleks, which is a brilliant concept. [01:54:07] Speaker C: Magnificent concept. Magnificent execution of the concept. We're not going to talk anymore about it. [01:54:12] Speaker A: Nope. [01:54:13] Speaker C: Because we don't want to spoil anything. However, see, I loved Clara there. [01:54:18] Speaker B: I loved Clara when she showed up the second time too. [01:54:20] Speaker C: I did too. [01:54:22] Speaker A: No, the first half of her season was great. [01:54:24] Speaker C: No, not according to Sigler. Okay, sorry. I will couch this as, in my opinion, cool. [01:54:31] Speaker A: No, it's all good. [01:54:32] Speaker C: Okay. [01:54:33] Speaker B: When she shows up as Oswald and when she shows up as Clara in the snowman, both are great. [01:54:41] Speaker A: Yes. [01:54:42] Speaker B: The next episode after that, I believe. [01:54:45] Speaker C: The bells of St. John. [01:54:46] Speaker B: Bells of St. John was pretty good introduction to a modern iteration. [01:54:51] Speaker A: That's right. [01:54:53] Speaker C: The problem with the second half of that season, at the end of the snowmen, the Doctor realizes, wait a minute, I've met her before. He doesn't recognize her when he sees her the first time because he didn't see her, but he knows her. [01:55:07] Speaker A: The voice and the character. [01:55:08] Speaker B: Right. [01:55:09] Speaker C: So he's like, well, that's impossible. So that second half of that season after the snowmen is so focused on the whole impossible girl mystery and trying to unravel that, that there's no actual development. She's just this cipher that he's trying to uncover. [01:55:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:55:27] Speaker B: She's essentially a mystery and a prop. She's a story element less than a character. [01:55:31] Speaker A: I dig the first half, the second half, where it all just kind of. [01:55:34] Speaker B: The problem with Clara's initial storyline is that she was essentially a promise of a good payoff, and she as a character and the show as a show did not pay off that promise the way it was supposed to, the way we had hoped that it would not even that it did it in a specific way that we didn't like, but it was just that what it ended up being was just not what it should have been. [01:56:01] Speaker C: One of the things that I hated was that it kind of presents her as. I'm the best companion ever. [01:56:07] Speaker B: Better than all the. [01:56:08] Speaker A: It really did. [01:56:09] Speaker C: I'm like, I have heard you say. [01:56:13] Speaker B: Companion Zilla about Clara more than once. [01:56:16] Speaker C: And Tate would agree. I feel like that's a disservice to all the other companions. [01:56:23] Speaker B: Rose, Martha. [01:56:24] Speaker C: Well, and the classic ones, because we see her. [01:56:27] Speaker B: We didn't even talk about Sarah Jane. [01:56:30] Speaker C: We talked about her a little bit before I went to the bathroom. But we see her in that episode, the name of the Doctor interacting with classic Doctors, which is kind of a. [01:56:44] Speaker A: Cool scene, which was kind of cool. Very cool. [01:56:46] Speaker B: I love the concept of the TaRdis finally, like, not being able to be contained within the tiny. [01:56:51] Speaker C: That was. There were a lot of good things. [01:56:54] Speaker B: There's a lot of really good elements about that episode. [01:56:55] Speaker A: Neil Gaiman wrote that amazing episode with the Tardis. [01:56:58] Speaker C: The Doctor's wife. Yes. [01:57:02] Speaker B: Back to Claire. Back to Claire. [01:57:04] Speaker A: That's why we don't like Claire. All that. I'm okay with her. I don't like her. [01:57:09] Speaker C: She's just the companionist. Companion ever see in that regard. [01:57:15] Speaker B: I see where issues are, and it's exacerbated, unfortunately, by many episodes in her tenure, where she kind of outdoctors the Doctor. And in some ways, it works really well. The one where the Doctor is stuck inside the TaRdiS because the Tardis is rough size. [01:57:32] Speaker C: Flatline. [01:57:32] Speaker B: Flatline. Because the Doctor's TarDiS is the size of a shoebox and he can't get out. He can't get out because his face doesn't even fit through the door. She's great in that. [01:57:42] Speaker C: I thought that was fantastic episode. [01:57:44] Speaker B: The episode where she's on the train and she basically solves the mystery instead of the Doctor. [01:57:48] Speaker A: You're like, well, I didn't love it, but I like that aspect. [01:57:53] Speaker B: Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. [01:57:54] Speaker A: Right. [01:57:55] Speaker B: But basically, up until Danny and Missy come along, there's a certain pushing of her where it feels like the show itself is trying to sell her harder than she needs to be sold. And unfortunately, it does a disservice to what her character could have been. [01:58:10] Speaker A: Right, Carrie? [01:58:12] Speaker B: Sorry. [01:58:12] Speaker C: Yeah, that's okay. [01:58:13] Speaker B: I think that's fair, because I am one of the few people who really. [01:58:16] Speaker A: Not to scare people away. [01:58:18] Speaker B: But I love Clara. [01:58:20] Speaker C: There are still a lot of good things about the Clara episodes I don't want to. Hyde in particular, I think, is a standout, probably the standout of that second half of that season. [01:58:32] Speaker B: Which one's Hyde? [01:58:33] Speaker C: Hyde is the one where they show up in the house with the psychic and the scientist. [01:58:44] Speaker A: That was a cool, self contained. [01:58:47] Speaker C: But again, it's all in service to this larger mystery because they solve the immediate problem. And then the doctor takes the psychic aside and says, hey, what can you tell me about her indicating Clara? He's still trying to figure her out, what's going on. [01:59:01] Speaker B: So I understand, because the problem that Clara, I think, also encounters is that so many people were upset at what Clara means when they left. Well, yeah. With what? So they're still mourning Amy and Roy, which I think is why Martha has such a bad as know. It's hard to follow up those characters. But I think that the other thing is that whether Clara played it well, because a lot of people complained about Clara as a person, and Tate is one of those people. Tate, I know, really doesn't like Clara as a character at all. [01:59:31] Speaker C: You mean Jenna Coleman? [01:59:33] Speaker B: Specifically about her performance? About Jenna Coleman's performance. But I never really had that big of an issue with her personality until it got to a point where I felt like she was cockier than the Doctor was about how to solve problems. There's a few episodes, and then eventually I just kind of got tired of her in Capaldi's run. [01:59:53] Speaker C: Yeah, she's. I think maybe she stayed even ultimately, she stayed longer than Amy and Rory. [01:59:58] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and I guess we'll speak about it now. She said she was leaving the show. They kind of wrote her off and they're like, actually. And she's like, you know what? Actually, I'll stay long. A little bit longer. [02:00:08] Speaker C: Yes, I pissed off about that. [02:00:12] Speaker B: I think if you ignore her role in the overall story and how she relates there, you're turning a blind eye yourself. Which admittedly, I did. But I think if you can focus on the aspects of her personality when they really do shine, it makes those episodes a lot more enjoyable. [02:00:35] Speaker A: True. That's the big thing with the Doctor who fandom these days, is with those episodes post Amy and Rory, there's a lot of split opinions and split. [02:00:46] Speaker B: Martha lasted one season and frankly, she was the audience's rebound. And I think had impossible girl closed that storyline and maybe even come back to her later and given us a break from her, she wouldn't have received the amount of hate that she had, because we just continued to stick. It was, no, no, they're dragging the war. We want to move. Know we did the. [02:01:10] Speaker A: Everyone else. [02:01:11] Speaker B: And that's why I think everyone loves Bill. [02:01:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:01:14] Speaker C: But Bill's got a lot going for. [02:01:16] Speaker B: We'll get to Bill in a minute. [02:01:17] Speaker A: We're almost there. [02:01:18] Speaker C: So we get to the 50th anniversary, which is the end of Matt Smith's tenure back. Yeah. This is where we get our time with the war Doctor, our small night of the Doctor, our night of the Doctor episode, mini episode that we talked about earlier. Right. And we get. [02:01:41] Speaker A: There's a lot of things that happened. [02:01:42] Speaker B: And we get a brief explanation for what was going on. When Tenet shows back up and he's got like the feathered boa and he starts mentioning stuff that wasn't a lay. [02:01:51] Speaker A: I can't remember. [02:01:52] Speaker C: I think he's wearing a lay. But anyway. Yeah. [02:01:56] Speaker A: So could we just speak upon the first or the 50th anniversary? Just that whole season, they had brand new big finish audio dramas. We had a few documentaries. We had a few. [02:02:10] Speaker C: We had a remembering the Doctor. [02:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:02:13] Speaker B: And I believe that was the year that we got an adventure in time and space. [02:02:18] Speaker A: Yep. [02:02:18] Speaker C: That's when we got the adventure in. [02:02:20] Speaker B: Time, which was the story of how Doctor who came to be. [02:02:24] Speaker C: And that's where we get David Bradley playing William Hartnell playing the Doctor who. [02:02:29] Speaker A: Ended up reprising that role in an actual episode later on. [02:02:33] Speaker B: We'll get to. [02:02:33] Speaker A: We'll get there. We're almost there. But you know what? BDC in general went all out for the 50th anniversary and it was fan freaking task. [02:02:41] Speaker C: They also had short stories featuring each of the doctors. [02:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:02:45] Speaker B: And they had that little skit with the older doctors that didn't get to be in the episode. And they brought in some older doctors into the 50th anniversary. Not quite as themselves, but sort of. [02:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is so good. [02:02:58] Speaker C: There was a lot of great podcast. [02:03:05] Speaker B: We're tapping our nose. It's fine. But not for that. [02:03:08] Speaker C: But there were a lot of good things going on in that 50th anniversary special. [02:03:13] Speaker A: The fandom was excited for everything going on. There were some great episodes going up leading up to it, give or take. [02:03:20] Speaker B: We just talked about that with the. [02:03:21] Speaker A: Clara stuff, but they were really gearing up for this. [02:03:23] Speaker C: And that 50th anniversary special was on the actual 50th anniversary of Doctor who. [02:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:03:31] Speaker B: Yes, it was. [02:03:32] Speaker A: Which I saw super cool with a couple of friends in the movie theaters. [02:03:35] Speaker C: Yeah. They broadcast it at home and into theaters. [02:03:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:03:41] Speaker B: It was so big. [02:03:43] Speaker A: We were in a theater in LA somewhere and they had three theaters open and it was sold out. All three theaters. Wow. Which was freaking huge. [02:03:57] Speaker B: That's awesome. [02:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:03:58] Speaker C: Nice. [02:03:58] Speaker B: That's so cool. [02:03:59] Speaker C: And so then we get to the end of the time of the Doctor, and then we go right into the Christmas special. The day of the Doctor. [02:04:09] Speaker B: Day of the Doctor. [02:04:10] Speaker C: And that is the end of Matt Smith's run. It's the end of the 11th. And I thought that was really well done. And I even thought that Clara was not. [02:04:22] Speaker A: I liked her that episode. [02:04:23] Speaker C: She was not terrible in that episode. There were a lot of things I liked about her in that episode. [02:04:28] Speaker B: Well, and that episode also does some really nice things in that it opens up some questions and discussions that really hadn't been discussed a whole lot. We always are wondering what's going on with Gallifrey. But we really got that answers. We got answers, but we also had a few questions not answered, but it was like, oh, yeah, we still don't actually know. With that episode. We had questions about the silence. They show up and all of a sudden, everything. Because the doctors do, we get the Doctor ages in a way that we have never seen a doctor do within. [02:05:03] Speaker C: A season, because eleven has had to stay in one place in ways that he has not had to before. [02:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah. The Doctor becomes a. And so that's the thing is while he. Yes. He spends somewhere between 50 to a couple of hundred years hiding above Victoria and London, above a cloud, before he meets Clara the second time in this, he stays in this city, this village for. What is it? [02:05:30] Speaker A: Like? [02:05:30] Speaker C: Somewhere like 500 generations? [02:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah. You don't have to worry about being quiet. Grab the swedish face. Generations. Go ahead, say generations. [02:05:44] Speaker C: That's okay. [02:05:46] Speaker A: But he's there for a long time. [02:05:48] Speaker B: He's there for such a long time. [02:05:50] Speaker A: And the way they introduce that in the episode, and you kind of get that heaviness that he's still mourning Amy and Rory and everything that's gone on since then. And he's been through some shit that. [02:06:02] Speaker B: Goodbye, honestly, I think, wrecked me as much as tenets because of the surprise cameo at the end. It was rough. It was so rough. But you really see in that episode just how far he is willing to go and to protect. Oh, yeah. And it's so interesting because he protects humanity on such a. I'm going to come in. I'm going to help you guys fix this. Very small black boxes. [02:06:34] Speaker C: We see him working on the macro level. [02:06:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:06:38] Speaker A: The earth is under my protection right here. [02:06:40] Speaker C: This is very much a micro level. [02:06:44] Speaker A: These two people are under my protection. And then stuff happens and they're like, holy crap. [02:06:50] Speaker B: And then that. [02:06:51] Speaker C: Handles, handles. [02:06:54] Speaker B: The TArDIs is messing up and he's like, just pick a number. [02:06:58] Speaker C: Poor handles. [02:06:59] Speaker B: Poor handles. But the concept of handles is such a great idea. [02:07:02] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, absolutely. [02:07:04] Speaker B: It's such a good twist of what we're so used to. And then we get Capaldi. [02:07:10] Speaker A: We get Capaldi, which I also want. [02:07:13] Speaker B: To point out there's a regeneration at the beginning of. And at the end of the time of the end, they didn't get Eccleston on the episode, but the way they got Eccleston in, in the end, we have this brief flash of the eyebrows of Peter Capaldi and you're like, I thought for sure, like, oh, shoot, we're going to get Capaldi by the end of this episode. And then we didn't. And then the day the Doctor comes and you're like, oh, man, I was already ready to say goodbye. Now I'm not saying goodbye, but now I have to say goodbye and I'm not. [02:07:48] Speaker A: No, those episodes were really. [02:07:50] Speaker B: Well, then we get Peter Capaldi, who really stays in a sort of gray monotone color scheme for a while in those first couple of episodes. [02:07:59] Speaker A: The pissed off old man Doctor. [02:08:00] Speaker B: Grumpy old man. Yeah. [02:08:02] Speaker A: Which I love. [02:08:03] Speaker C: Right. And I thought was an outstanding contrast to the sort of bouncy, tiggery Matt Smith. Sort of Matt doctor that we had in Matt Smith and even a little. [02:08:16] Speaker B: Bit in David Tennant as well. [02:08:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Younger, energetic. [02:08:21] Speaker B: Younger, energetic. [02:08:23] Speaker C: But Smith was a lot goofier than Tennant. Yes. And I'm glad that they went with an older doctor with Capaldi, because I feel like they needed to have that contrast. [02:08:38] Speaker B: I think they also needed to show his wisdom. He was an old man when he regenerated from Matt Smith into Peter Capaldi. Yeah, a couple thousand. But, I mean, he looked 16 as an old man. [02:08:53] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. Yeah. [02:08:55] Speaker B: He was a haggard old man. And then he turns into a different, slightly better put together old man. But what's really cool about him is that Peter Capaldi was not asked to change his scottish accent. [02:09:06] Speaker A: Right. [02:09:06] Speaker B: Which. David Tennant is very scottish. [02:09:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [02:09:09] Speaker B: And, I mean, he does a killer Macbeth. [02:09:12] Speaker C: He's also Scrooge McDuck on the new duck. [02:09:14] Speaker B: He is. And he's fantastic. [02:09:17] Speaker C: And scottish. [02:09:18] Speaker B: Yes, but Peter Capaldi gets to stay scottish. And, I mean, we were so insofar that we made fun of scottish people in the beginning of eleven and now we actually have a full scottish doctor. But admittedly, he's got a rough. Like, the first season is all right. The second season, there's three. Right. [02:09:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:09:39] Speaker C: Two of the first season was okay. [02:09:41] Speaker B: It's got some moments. I actually really enjoyed a lot of it because that's the one where we still have Danny. [02:09:47] Speaker C: Yes. I love Danny Pink. [02:09:49] Speaker A: Danny Pink. [02:09:50] Speaker B: And the frustration between the Doctor and his problem with soldiers and his problem with war really comes out in that, because Danny Pink is a soldier. [02:10:00] Speaker C: A former soldier. [02:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah, a former soldier. And he holds. [02:10:03] Speaker C: And Danny has his own issues with his time in the service. [02:10:07] Speaker B: Yes, for sure. In her majesty's service. [02:10:10] Speaker C: Right. [02:10:11] Speaker A: Which is some great writing. [02:10:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And then we get some new stuff. We get this mystery of Missy. And that is a wonderful. Yeah, that season really comes to a. [02:10:23] Speaker C: Nice close, but it's brutal in a lot of ways. [02:10:28] Speaker B: There's a point in that where they say one sentence where it was the cremation sentence. They're talking about what, all these people? And they hear this screaming, and they're like, oh, yeah, that person's being cremated. [02:10:38] Speaker A: That's right. [02:10:39] Speaker B: And they hear screaming, and it suddenly creates, basically, their heaven. Reality is altered. It's like, I don't like that you've just done that to my idea, cremation. That's a very uncomfortable ass move. What ends up going on with Missy is brilliant. And then when Missy shows up, sort of spoilers. Missy shows up again in season two, at the end of season two, and she has that moment with the plane in the sky and all that, you're like, how the hell did you get out of this? There's. [02:11:13] Speaker A: There's not a few things in that second Capaldi season. I liked Maisie Williams, honestly. But Maisie Williams came on, also known as Aria Stark. Yes. And she made quite a few appearances, was definitely a major player in that season, which I loved. [02:11:30] Speaker B: But everything else even still, those episodes were very slow. [02:11:33] Speaker C: There were a lot of things that I liked in those episodes. Unfortunately, Clara was not. [02:11:42] Speaker B: And I think it was less Jenna Coleman and much more the writers. Tate made a very good point about it. He said these writers want people to like her so much that they're trying to make her this really, again, this kind of companion Zilla again. And that, I think, is where she becomes a weaker part of it because it weakens her character by making her so strong. [02:12:03] Speaker C: Well, and did we allude to the fact that. Yeah, I think you alluded to it, but in the Christmas special after Capaldi's first season, it's called Santa Claus. [02:12:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:12:15] Speaker C: It's called last Christmas. [02:12:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:12:16] Speaker A: It was put by Nick Frost. [02:12:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:12:19] Speaker A: The wonderful Nick Frost. [02:12:20] Speaker C: Outstanding episode in a lot of ways. Not very christmassy, but there's a Santa. [02:12:25] Speaker A: There's a Santa there. [02:12:26] Speaker C: That was supposed to be Jenna Coleman's departure from the series. Right. [02:12:34] Speaker A: Leaving. I'm good. [02:12:36] Speaker C: Almost literally the last minute. No, I think I'd like to stay. They kind of had to re. Kind of change the end a little bit. [02:12:43] Speaker B: But, man, when they said the doctor and Clara will return. [02:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah. We're like, wait, what? [02:12:49] Speaker B: You guys are like, wait, what? [02:12:50] Speaker C: I was like, no. [02:12:51] Speaker B: I was like, clara redemption. [02:12:53] Speaker C: That was me. I was like, fuck, yeah. [02:12:55] Speaker B: A lot of people were mad. I was like, yes, I don't want to. Because I didn't want to go out like that. [02:12:59] Speaker C: Well, but I think that they started. [02:13:02] Speaker A: I think they started writing her off like that. [02:13:04] Speaker B: They very much were trying to get her to walk away in that regard. But her send off when she finally gets it is really cool. [02:13:13] Speaker C: No, because once again. [02:13:16] Speaker B: Once again, companion zillow. [02:13:18] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I mean, he, her. [02:13:22] Speaker B: You're right. [02:13:25] Speaker A: It was a cool idea. [02:13:27] Speaker B: Suddenly it was like, oh, execution. You got out of that. Because up until then. Because it leads to such a huge development in the show. [02:13:36] Speaker C: Right. [02:13:36] Speaker A: We're not spoiling anything. [02:13:37] Speaker B: So we're staying. [02:13:38] Speaker A: We're not spoiling anything. [02:13:39] Speaker C: But she gets out of a situation that she should not have been able. [02:13:43] Speaker B: To get out of in a really cool way. But unfortunately, when you've gotten out of every other situation. [02:13:49] Speaker C: But here's the thing. [02:13:50] Speaker A: Okay. [02:13:51] Speaker C: Yes. The doctor pulls her out of that situation between seconds, for a moment, for a time. Okay, great. [02:13:59] Speaker B: Put her back, put her back. [02:14:01] Speaker C: Put her back. Because these things come with a cost. [02:14:10] Speaker B: Putting her back would be a very strong and bold choice that I feel like they neglected. Yes. I feel still that I know that they'll never close it off, which is a shame. But it would be a really great thing to end that story in some way, to have her finally go back much in the same way that they do with the husbands of River Song. [02:14:35] Speaker C: Yes. [02:14:36] Speaker B: Which is the next episode after she. Yeah. [02:14:38] Speaker C: Yes. [02:14:39] Speaker B: So let's talk about that. [02:14:40] Speaker A: River Song comes back. [02:14:42] Speaker C: This is my tie for best Christmas. [02:14:45] Speaker A: So it's interesting because up to this point, we thought Riversong's story arc was done, completed. [02:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah. We did not assume she'd come. [02:14:53] Speaker A: There was a few things here and. [02:14:54] Speaker B: There that was kind of left open. [02:14:56] Speaker A: But at the same time, you're like, you know what? I'm okay with how this ended. The logical ending. [02:15:01] Speaker C: Yes. [02:15:01] Speaker B: And they really kind of turn her character on her head just a little bit too. Aspects of her. You've never. [02:15:06] Speaker C: Right, well, there are a couple of mini episodes that feature. [02:15:12] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. [02:15:13] Speaker C: First night, last night. There's a couple of others. [02:15:17] Speaker B: The one where they keep coming in. [02:15:21] Speaker C: Yes. [02:15:22] Speaker A: Okay. [02:15:24] Speaker B: Can we talk about Doctor who mini. [02:15:25] Speaker A: So hold on. [02:15:26] Speaker B: We haven't explained, so we're not confused. [02:15:28] Speaker C: Well, we've alluded to them, we've talked about them with the night of the Doctor. [02:15:33] Speaker B: Right. [02:15:35] Speaker C: But every so often, sometimes at the beginning, as kind of a warm up for the new season, they will do new episodes or little mini episodes that they'll release to the youtubes. Right. There are the River Song episodes. [02:15:52] Speaker A: A lot of them are focused on River Song. [02:15:54] Speaker C: Yeah. There's a series called five mini episodes that make up the pond know, it's Rory and Amy's married life. [02:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah. When they're not with the. [02:16:06] Speaker C: You know, what's the list he makes? [02:16:09] Speaker B: He makes this great list at the beginning of the episode, right after Pond life, where he's like, step one, do this. Step three. Step three, figure out what's going on with Rory and Amy's marriage, fix their marital problem. [02:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:16:26] Speaker C: There are also things like time crash, which I think we talked about before I went to the bathroom, where the 10th Doctor meets the Fifth Doctor to solve the problem. And when he's the 10th Doctor, he remembers coming up with it or hearing himself talk about it as the Fifth Doctor and so on. So there are all these little mini episodes that are included on the dvd sets or you have a bigger picture, which is cool. [02:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:16:56] Speaker C: But they help paint some of the details of the larger picture. And why were we talking about that? [02:17:02] Speaker B: We were talking about River Song. [02:17:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:17:09] Speaker B: So we've had a few moments with river since her departure and Matt, but. [02:17:13] Speaker A: We'Re very happy with how it ended. Okay, this is. Yeah. [02:17:16] Speaker B: And we've been two seasons without River Song in the main series. [02:17:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:17:20] Speaker C: And one of the things that I love about the husbands of River Song is I think you started to say, we see what she's up to when the doctor's not around. [02:17:30] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a little sketchy. You feel them a little. You're like, what are you, ma'am? [02:17:35] Speaker C: Yes. And this is. [02:17:36] Speaker B: Your virtue is on the line here. Yeah. [02:17:38] Speaker C: And this is Charlote's favorite Christmas special. She will watch it over and over and over again. And I don't blame her. It is magnificent. And I always cry. And I know this comes as a big shock. It doesn't not at all. [02:17:54] Speaker A: No. [02:17:55] Speaker C: And it is magnificent. [02:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:17:59] Speaker B: No, it's marvelous. [02:18:00] Speaker A: That's great. Mostly because you didn't expect it. [02:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And that end. But still she looks and she asks the question, and he gives her the answer, and you're just like, this is exactly what I wanted. [02:18:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:18:15] Speaker B: And you didn't realize. [02:18:16] Speaker C: You didn't even know that I wanted. [02:18:18] Speaker B: Didn't even know that you wanted it. All right. Yes. [02:18:23] Speaker C: And then we get no doctor who for a year. [02:18:25] Speaker B: Then we lose. Yeah, we lose. [02:18:27] Speaker C: We get nothing for a year. And then we come back with the following Christmas special, the return of Dr. Mysterio. [02:18:34] Speaker B: Return of Dr. Mysterio. [02:18:38] Speaker C: That was a fun episode, which was. [02:18:40] Speaker A: Really nice because for the last couple. [02:18:41] Speaker C: Of episodes, they were good and they were heavy. [02:18:44] Speaker A: They were heavy. They were not that fun. [02:18:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:18:47] Speaker A: And so it was a great. [02:18:50] Speaker C: One of the things I liked about the return of Dr. Mysterio is it kind of plays off some things that happen in the husbands of River Song. [02:18:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:18:58] Speaker C: And I'm not going to necessarily say what those are, but basically what we've got here, the husband's River Song is basically a heist movie. [02:19:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:19:10] Speaker C: Similar to time heist. And then you've got Doctor who is a superhero story. [02:19:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:19:19] Speaker C: Which is a lot of fun. One of the things I loved about this episode, when the Doctor is talking to young grant the kid, and they're talking about comics and doctors flipping through, he's like, wait a minute. Clark Kent and Superman are the same guy? He's like, I don't know if you're telling Grant, I don't know if you know this, but look. And he takes a pen and draws glasses onto Superman. He's like, look, they're the same guy. And Grant's like, yeah, this is just. There's so many good things. And we get Nardal again. We meet Nardal in. We meet Nardal in the husbands of Rivers song. And I didn't really like him in the husbands of river, you're supposed I. [02:20:10] Speaker A: Because I don't think they really knew where they were going with him at the time. [02:20:12] Speaker C: Right. And I really liked him. In the return of Dr. Mysterio and the subsequent series. Yeah. When we meet, know the new companion in the following season. She is amazing and Nardol is amazing. And the interplay between the three of them just. [02:20:34] Speaker B: It was great. There's a lot of things that are amazing. Number one is he's a companion for sure, while not being strictly a 20th or 21st century human, which is wonderful. [02:20:47] Speaker C: He's not human. [02:20:48] Speaker A: He's a robot. [02:20:49] Speaker C: At this point. Yeah. [02:20:49] Speaker B: At this point, he's a full on robot. [02:20:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:20:51] Speaker B: Number two, Nardal is there to protect the Doctor from himself, and Bill is there as a catalyst to bring the Doctor back to himself. [02:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:21:03] Speaker C: Right. [02:21:04] Speaker B: So he's like, no, you can't be the Doctor anymore. [02:21:07] Speaker A: You have to stay here. [02:21:08] Speaker B: Dangerous for you to be the Doctor. You can't do it. I'm here to stop you from spoilers. [02:21:13] Speaker A: He works at university. [02:21:14] Speaker B: I'm here to stop you from being Mr. Fun adventure madman in a box. [02:21:18] Speaker A: But I kind of see, like, where you're going with it. [02:21:22] Speaker B: Can we do more madman adventure in a box things? And he's like, okay. Just throws his arms in the air and, like, I guess. And we get this wonderful dichotomy of, like, both of them have, I think, his best interest at heart. But one of them, Bill and Nardal. But they both are going about it in such opposite ways, in a way that they're antagonists to each other's goals. While you love both of them, there's not really a bad guy in this situation. And you feel for both. You're like, you don't know what necessarily, what Nardal's goals are. You're like something. We're missing something. [02:22:01] Speaker A: So in very related news with this season, it's Moffat's last season. Yes, it's Capaldi's last season. So they kind of brought their a game with the writing. [02:22:12] Speaker B: I think everyone was refreshed both in the writing and in the audience because. [02:22:16] Speaker A: Again, they took that year off. [02:22:18] Speaker C: Right. [02:22:19] Speaker B: We've been missing a year and we no longer have Clara, which means we can explore. [02:22:24] Speaker C: Right. And our new companion, Bill, played by Pearl Mackey. [02:22:29] Speaker B: So good. She's so good. She's so, so refreshing. And much like Tate. [02:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:22:35] Speaker B: Who comes after the rebound, she is a companion with no particular interest in romance with. [02:22:41] Speaker A: Well, there is one. [02:22:42] Speaker C: Because she's a lesbian. [02:22:44] Speaker B: Because she's a lesbian. [02:22:45] Speaker A: Yes. That pays off eventually. [02:22:51] Speaker C: We meet Bill in the episode the pilot, which has kind of a double meaning because in some ways, it is a pilot episode for this new season to introduce the new kind of status quo. [02:23:03] Speaker B: Yeah, we're getting a very new series of Doctor who at this point. [02:23:07] Speaker C: Right. [02:23:08] Speaker A: They've been announced that there's a new writing staff, new showrunner, new Doctor, which was a huge thing. [02:23:18] Speaker C: All that is coming. We don't know who the new doctor at this point, but we know that's. [02:23:22] Speaker A: Coming to an end. And this season is the last one with everybody there. And we're like, okay, we'll see what happens. And the writing is fantastic. The stories were great. The character development was awesome. It was a great refresher from the last season that I really didn't like at all. [02:23:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think many people needed that refreshing. And I think Bill being a lesbian person of color. [02:23:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [02:23:46] Speaker B: Was huge. Really great compared to Clara's second season. So we get to the pilot. [02:23:52] Speaker C: Yes. And there is just so much good stuff happening there. We meet Bill. We meet the doctor. The doctor is a professor at. I can't remember the name of the. [02:24:05] Speaker A: One of the universities over there. [02:24:08] Speaker C: And his classes are always packed. And he notices Bill because she's not actually enrolled in the class. She just serves chips. Yeah, she's a working girl serving chips in the cafeteria. [02:24:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:24:24] Speaker B: She has this great monologue audience because I know you both know about it, where she talks about this girl that she likes, and she talks because every day the girl comes in and she gives her a few extra chips, and then she's trying to butter her up. But the reality is she's literally buttering her up. And by the end of it, she's like. And then I wasn't really attracted to her because I'd made her this unhealthy woman. And it's such a testament to how Bill feels about herself. When I love something, I wind up ruining. Know. And we have the episode with the pilot, and there's something to be said about that theory that Bill has for herself within that episode. [02:25:04] Speaker A: Yeah. It was almost like a who boot. Within the who boot. Hit that button, sir. Hit that button. Boom. Worked it in. Been a while. [02:25:17] Speaker C: That's what she said. [02:25:22] Speaker B: Sorry, mom. [02:25:25] Speaker C: He's not sorry. He's had ample opportunity to be sorry for all the stupid shit tonight. And he's not sorry. [02:25:35] Speaker B: No, I'm not. Fists on hips. [02:25:39] Speaker C: Okay, so after the pilot, we get. [02:25:43] Speaker A: A bunch of multiple episode stories. [02:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah, multi episode arcs. [02:25:48] Speaker A: They really changed this last season. [02:25:50] Speaker C: Well, one of the things that I love, we get the smile episode, which is like the emoji bots. That's fun. We get thin ice, which. Where the Doctor takes Bill to the last of the frost fairs when the Thames have frozen over, which is interesting because we know that other iterations of the Doctor have gone to the Frost fairs. [02:26:16] Speaker B: Oh, really? [02:26:17] Speaker C: Yes. Well, because river has a line about in a good man goes to war, when Rory goes to get her, he says, hey, the doctor sent me for you. She's like, oh, I just saw him. He went to the frost fair and Stevie Wonder played. And he's like, wait, Stevie Wonder played in 17? Whatever. She's like, yes, but you mustn't tell him. There are other references in the classic series to the Frost fairs and things like that. And so. [02:26:53] Speaker B: We get to see a frost fair. [02:26:54] Speaker C: We get to see a frost fair and we get just this range of locations. We get knock, knock with the amazing David Sucher, who some of our listeners might know from his time playing Hercule Poirot in the Poirot mysteries. And then we get into the multi episode arcs that you guys were talking about where. Well, I don't want to give them away. [02:27:28] Speaker B: Well, and one of the things that I think is really wonderful about Doctor who, especially during the who boot is. [02:27:37] Speaker A: Hit that shit, sir. We'll wait. That's it. [02:27:44] Speaker B: Is that there's this concept of legacy that they really, really do play with. There is this idea that we need to continue and explore and find new ways to push this show, for sure. But then we also have things like the Frost fair, the multi episode arcs, the original Cybermen that comes in towards the later half of the season. These ideas really and truly have this wonderful combination of saying, here's where we've come from and here's where we want to go. While never really, we didn't forget where we came from, there's a ton of Zygon stories within the lat. [02:28:27] Speaker A: Within the 50th anniversary. [02:28:30] Speaker B: Yeah, the 50th anniversary all the way through Capaldi, we'd never seen a zygon in regards to the. Since the beginning of Eccleston's run. [02:28:37] Speaker C: Right. [02:28:37] Speaker B: And it's really cool because they kind. [02:28:40] Speaker C: Of look ridiculous, but they are serious threat. [02:28:45] Speaker B: A serious threat. Even the Cybermen are kind of. They did some upgrades to them, but of course, upgrades to them. They did some upgrades to the Cybermen, but they can do that within that. [02:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:28:56] Speaker B: Daleks somehow still are scary. I don't understand it. They should be just dumb. They're just trash cans with balls on the side. But at the same time, when Daleks. [02:29:09] Speaker C: Show up, they're such a formidable foe. They're terrifying in their know. [02:29:19] Speaker B: Yeah. In that particular episode with Clara and Missy and the Daleks on, well, I don't want to give it away where. [02:29:27] Speaker C: They are, but the witch is familiar and the magician's apprentice are the two that. [02:29:35] Speaker B: Those are some really good episodes. And Missy and Clara together have a really great. [02:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Chemistry. [02:29:43] Speaker B: Chemistry. Yeah, they do. And I think those are the best episodes for her. [02:29:47] Speaker A: Oh, totally. [02:29:48] Speaker B: We move in to the end of the bill season and I think we really do get this legacy idea where we start going. Let's go back and see what we kind of forgot about in season two of Capaldi's run. And I think that that's why season three of his run went so. [02:30:10] Speaker C: And, you know, with that legacy, there are some things that happen that I'm not going to go into because spoilers and even they're really powerful context of. [02:30:20] Speaker B: Just the most recent iterations. By going back to stuff involving tenet and Eccleston and all that era of Doctor who, we even get to go back to that now because that's been long enough that we can go, let's do a callback to the Russell T. Davies era. And he worked on it. Now we can have this callback folds in on itself. It's very whimy. [02:30:47] Speaker A: I was going to say, yeah, you go back and forth, forward and back. [02:30:52] Speaker C: And we get down to the last Christmas special. Yeah. Because Capaldi, he and Bill suffer mightily in the season finale in many ways, many. [02:31:07] Speaker B: Within. I had my tv on my coffee table because I hadn't set up my room yet and I sat on my couch and I watched like, seven episodes of that run in a row while my roommates were, like, moving in and moving around me. And it was very. If it had been on film, everybody would have been moving in fast motion while I sat still on my thing. And my jaw was just. My jaw was open, my eyes were flowing, tears as I went through those last episodes. Just. No, right. And it was magnificent. [02:31:39] Speaker C: Yeah. And then we get to the Christmas special. We leave off with. At the end of Capaldi's last regular episode, the Doctor falls and he's starting to regenerate and he's like, no, I don't want to do this to. I don't want to have to figure out who I am again. I don't want to do this. And that's where we leave off and pick up at the end of that episode. And we pick up right there at the Christmas special. [02:32:10] Speaker B: Twice upon a time falls out of the TArDIs. It's snowing. [02:32:16] Speaker C: In comes the first Doctor, played by David Bradley, who is in a similar mean. Obviously he's in the same physical place, but in terms, like, emotionally, in terms of his regeneration, he's in the same place. [02:32:33] Speaker B: And the TARDIS takes him there, does it not? [02:32:35] Speaker C: Yeah, the Tardis takes him there because in the Neil Gaiman episode, the Doctor's wife with eleven, there's a beautiful line, the Doctor and Idris, who has the consciousness of the consciousness of the artists, so they're finally able to talk to each other. The Doctor says, and since we have the opportunity to talk, you're not very reliable. She's like, what are you talking about? And he says, you never take me where I wanted to go. She's like, I always took you where you needed to be, where you needed to go. And once again, she does that here. Because this is clearly where he needs to be, because they are both at a crossroads. Twelve is like, I don't want to do this. One apparently is doing it for the first time, and he's scared. [02:33:30] Speaker B: Now, remind us, when the second iteration of the Doctor came, there was no regeneration sequence, was there? [02:33:39] Speaker C: Well, not in. The effects obviously weren't what they could be. They kind of fade in one and fade out the other. [02:33:49] Speaker B: So they did show a sort of regeneration. Yes. Okay. And there's only the little three that just kind of wakes up in color. [02:33:57] Speaker C: Right. And the footage doesn't really exist anymore. There's a little bit of it that existed in the archives of a children's show called Blue Peter. Right. So the first Doctor is like, I don't know if I want to do this. Even though he's an old man, this is apparently his first regenerations. First go round of this, and he's not sure what to expect, and he's not sure if he wants to do it. And so we have this adventure that twelve and one and Bill. Go on. Oh, cool. Because you haven't seen it yet. [02:34:34] Speaker B: I haven't. [02:34:34] Speaker C: And we pick up a hitchhiker. I don't think we even get his name, the captain. I think he's just referred to as. [02:34:42] Speaker A: The captain, played by Mark Gaddis. [02:34:45] Speaker B: Oh, cool. [02:34:45] Speaker A: Yep. [02:34:46] Speaker C: Yes. [02:34:47] Speaker B: I missed the Christmas special. There was a lot changing in my life at that time. [02:34:51] Speaker C: That's okay. [02:34:52] Speaker A: Our guest is also who helps co write Sherlock. [02:34:57] Speaker B: Yes. [02:34:57] Speaker A: He's also Sherlock's brother. [02:34:59] Speaker B: He plays Minecraft. [02:35:00] Speaker C: Minecraft. [02:35:01] Speaker A: And he's also in Game of Thrones for a couple episodes. [02:35:03] Speaker B: He's also in something else that I recently saw. And I was like, minecraft, what are you doing? [02:35:08] Speaker A: He's great. He's great in this episode, too. [02:35:12] Speaker C: Yes, he is fantastic. I'm not going to say anything else about him because it's a huge part. [02:35:17] Speaker A: Of the episode, too. [02:35:19] Speaker C: Magnificent. But he's a world War I captain. [02:35:24] Speaker B: I love World War I history. [02:35:26] Speaker C: And they go back to World War I at the end. [02:35:29] Speaker B: Yes. Because there's that marvelous line where he calls it World War I. And Mark Gaddis goes one. Yeah. [02:35:36] Speaker C: And he's like. [02:35:37] Speaker B: And it's spoiler. [02:35:39] Speaker C: Yeah. And we get to the end, everybody goes back to where they're supposed to and we come to the regeneration sequence and he is basically laying out the rules for his new self before he starts, before he goes, wonderful. And it is just such an amazing. You play. It was great. [02:36:05] Speaker A: I loved it because I didn't love the previous season, and this season was just so good. [02:36:10] Speaker B: It's nice to close it nicely. [02:36:12] Speaker C: Exactly. It closes on the highest of high notes. [02:36:16] Speaker B: And I know a lot of people were really excited because they announced that regeneration in August. I want to say we got the first trailer with that key scene just before we recorded the first half. [02:36:33] Speaker C: We knew who. [02:36:33] Speaker B: And the second half, which is lost, much like somebody, I think it was Eric, who pointed out the irony of the second of a chunk of our doctor. Doctor who episode being lost. [02:36:49] Speaker C: Thanks, man. Can we talk about the casting for the 13th Doctor? [02:36:54] Speaker A: Yes, please. Okay. [02:36:56] Speaker C: Because Jody Whitaker is the 13th Doctor. First time we've had a woman doctor. [02:37:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is. [02:37:04] Speaker C: I am super excited because we're finally. [02:37:06] Speaker B: At a time where it doesn't necessarily feel like stunt casting. [02:37:09] Speaker C: I think there's an element early about the fandom. We've talked earlier about the fandom who likes things, who likes it the way they like it. [02:37:16] Speaker A: Right. [02:37:16] Speaker C: So for them, yes. This is the smacks of stunt casting and tokenism and all this other bullshit. [02:37:22] Speaker A: You need that. [02:37:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Considering what we've gone through within this iteration, I feel like it's time and it's appropriate and I think the Doctor needs that change. [02:37:31] Speaker A: Well, they're changing another showrunner as well. [02:37:36] Speaker B: They are changing showrunner. [02:37:38] Speaker C: Chris Chibnell is our new showrunner and he is now. He's written several episodes. Yeah. He was showrunner for broad church. [02:37:44] Speaker B: Okay. [02:37:45] Speaker C: But he's also worked where he worked with Jodie Whitaker, David Tennant, and the. [02:37:51] Speaker B: Woman who is the second contestant on number Wang. [02:37:54] Speaker C: And Rory. Rory was in the first season. [02:37:57] Speaker B: Yes. Many people do. [02:38:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:38:02] Speaker B: Including myself. I have heard nothing but good things. I've never heard a bad thing about broad church. [02:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:38:07] Speaker C: One of the things that has me excited about Jodie Whitaker is this is something that I think Moffat had been kind of building towards as a possibility. We get the first reference to Time Lords changing gender as they regenerate, actually, in that the Doctor's wife episode that Neil Gaiman wrote because he refers to the know another Time Lord and how Corsair always had the same tattoo, man or woman, I think, is how he puts it. [02:38:39] Speaker B: And then there was also missy. Missy. And then there was in the instances with the general that they speak of that I don't want to give away where they are, what they're doing, and how that happens. But there was another one, a major one, because I believe it even happens on camera. [02:38:55] Speaker A: Camera, yes, that's right. But then also in the 50th anniversary ape Doctor episode, there was little tiny things here and there, like, oh, I can choose who I want to be. [02:39:06] Speaker C: And how I want to be. The sisterhood of Karn mentions that, hey, man or woman, do what you want, homie. [02:39:13] Speaker B: Yeah, we've definitely established this very thoroughly. [02:39:15] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [02:39:16] Speaker A: It hasn't been done before. Now it has. [02:39:19] Speaker C: And so that's super exciting. And one of the stupid bullshit arguments that I hear is, well, but little boys won't have that role model. Hey, little boys have a bunch of doctor role models. How about giving little girls a role model? [02:39:33] Speaker A: And you know what? There's nothing that says that they can't have a female role model. [02:39:38] Speaker B: That's why I love Steven. Universe is everything that Steven looks up to for strength, aside from the emotional strength of his father, is a woman. And there's nothing wrong with. [02:39:47] Speaker C: Absolutely. [02:39:49] Speaker B: It's the time for this to happen, for sure. [02:39:52] Speaker C: And apparently, and it was impossible to. Normally, I would rather these things just sort of show up on my tv in the episodes. [02:40:04] Speaker A: Right. [02:40:04] Speaker C: There's no way to escape that announcement. But as I understand it, and I was able to avoid a lot of this, as I understand it, the companion is actually going to be a group of companions, thank goodness, which we have not seen since the Fifth Doctor, maybe briefly in the 6th. [02:40:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And even the small group with. [02:40:29] Speaker B: I mean, it was nice that we just. Plus occasionally river. And it was nice that we had normal, like Garfield, come on, Nardal and Nardal. And know. Ian and Barbara and. [02:40:48] Speaker C: Or Troughton usually had two. [02:40:50] Speaker B: Yeah, Troughton had. And he went through a couple, including people from various times that weren't right. I would love if this group was a collection of, like, well, I got this knight from the twelveth century, and I got this space man from the. [02:41:06] Speaker A: Colin did something similar with his last season and the one off movies, basically, because that also happened with that, too. And he had a couple of different companions from different timelines. I'm talking, like, with the dinosaurs on the spaceship. [02:41:26] Speaker C: No, that's all Amy and Rory. [02:41:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:41:28] Speaker A: Wasn't there somebody else on there too that. [02:41:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:41:30] Speaker C: Mr. Pond. [02:41:32] Speaker B: Not Mr. Pond. [02:41:33] Speaker C: Mr. Williams. [02:41:34] Speaker B: Mr. Pond. Mr. Yeah. [02:41:35] Speaker A: Didn't he pull someone else that was like Cleopatra? [02:41:38] Speaker B: Yeah, Cleopatra and the Hunter. [02:41:41] Speaker A: He had those random companions and they were. [02:41:44] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's, yeah, but they weren't consistent. I want the dad from Jumanji. [02:41:48] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [02:41:49] Speaker B: But swarthy. [02:41:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So anyways, yeah. So it's kind of cool we get this new showrunner, new doctor and then new group of companions. [02:41:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm excited about that. [02:41:59] Speaker B: It really sucks, though. Yeah. [02:42:02] Speaker A: We don't have a premiere date yet. [02:42:05] Speaker C: We know it's going to be in the fall. [02:42:07] Speaker A: We know it's probably, yeah, it's sometime in the fall, but nothing's. [02:42:10] Speaker C: They're filming. They've been filming for some time, right. [02:42:13] Speaker A: A couple months. [02:42:14] Speaker B: Okay, well, now that's. So is there anything industry wise within the tenure of Moffat of note that really, that was anything bizarre? I don't know. [02:42:27] Speaker C: What do you mean industry wise regarding. [02:42:30] Speaker B: Him, regarding his time there, whether he was leaving or whether he wasn't, controversies or anything like that? I feel like he had a pretty benign run like that. [02:42:40] Speaker C: Moffat. [02:42:41] Speaker A: Didn't he have some, he was like, he said something about with female, having a female being against a female doctor or female companion or something like that. [02:42:50] Speaker C: No, I don't think he had any opposition to female by him. Female doctor. I think his position was just that now is not the right time because he establishes that it's possible for Time Lords to regenerate into the opposite gender. [02:43:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I think he responded poorly to controversy about the way he had written female characters at some point. Maybe that, but it was like a one off instance that has clearly given the rest of his actions during the show. Granted, he does have a little bit of a problem with failing the Bechtel test on a regular basis and not giving women lines very much, but then he goes overboard on the other end with Clara, who runs the show for a season and a, it's. That would require much further study and analysis. [02:43:42] Speaker A: Your own question then. [02:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess did so. Okay, so now honorable mentions episodes. [02:43:53] Speaker A: We barely touched. [02:43:54] Speaker B: We got Torchwood, we got class, we got Sarah James adventures. [02:43:59] Speaker A: So we'll just go briefly into those. [02:44:01] Speaker B: So Torchwood follows the story of Captain Jack Harkness and the rest of Captain Jack, which actually do show up in a couple of episodes. And the doctors, or at least tenet shows up in theirs as well, as does Martha. As does Martha. Martha's there for two or three episodes, if I'm not mistaken. And then that eventually gets its own show, its own season in America on stars, and it's co production, terribly dark. [02:44:30] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. [02:44:31] Speaker B: And it's just really. Well, right after that third children of Earth season. But miracle Day asks some questions in a way that really messed up. You want to get to the end because you're hoping something will fix it. [02:44:45] Speaker A: Exactly. [02:44:46] Speaker B: And within that, they really explore both things within the Doctor who universe as well as within their own current present day. [02:44:56] Speaker A: And you know, what if Doctor who's not your thing and you're not into that sort of cheesiness? [02:45:01] Speaker B: Torchwood, way to go. [02:45:03] Speaker A: They leave all of that out and everything's kind of dark. [02:45:07] Speaker B: A little bit of cheesiness in the. [02:45:08] Speaker A: First couple of seasons, but they really grow into their own show, completely separate. [02:45:12] Speaker B: You get sex scenes, there's adult humor, adult romance. [02:45:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:45:18] Speaker B: My thing for Doctor who is that it makes me feel like I'm twelve. I get that same sort of excitement watching Doctor who as I did when I was watching, like, dragon Ball Z as a kid. It's just like anything can happen and we're here. It's like reading Harry Potter for the first time. So for me, I really feel like Torchwood gives us something that can keep us within that sense of anything could happen, but also treats it with a. [02:45:44] Speaker A: More mature thing while Sarah Jane goes. [02:45:48] Speaker B: Sarah Jane's the other direction. [02:45:50] Speaker C: Yeah, Sarah Jane. [02:45:52] Speaker B: Matt Smith has a cameo in Sarah Jane adventures and he actually talks about regeneration. [02:45:56] Speaker C: Yes, well, Sarah Jane Adventures is almost like the training wheels version of the Doctor, for sure. [02:46:08] Speaker A: Sarah Jane was a companion with which Doctor? [02:46:10] Speaker C: First three, with John Pertwee, the third, she was also companions with. The fourth shows up for a little bit with ten. [02:46:19] Speaker B: With canine. [02:46:20] Speaker A: Yeah, canine. [02:46:21] Speaker C: And then eleven shows up. As you said on her show. [02:46:27] Speaker A: She'S been around the world. [02:46:28] Speaker C: Yeah, it's Sarah Jane's life, sort of what she's doing when the Doctor, because. [02:46:34] Speaker B: She too leaves the doctor in a healthy. [02:46:38] Speaker C: Doctor. [02:46:39] Speaker B: Later in a healthy. [02:46:42] Speaker C: The second, when she shows up with Tennant. There's closure there for her when she leaves the fourth. The fourth Doctor just sort of abandons her on the side of the road, nowhere near where she actually is supposed to. [02:46:57] Speaker B: Yeah, but she, like Catherine Tate's character, Donna, she also kind of longs for a little bit more excitement and adventure in her life now that she's in the post Doctor awareness. Yeah. [02:47:10] Speaker C: And she straight says life with the Doctor is a tough act to follow. [02:47:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. [02:47:16] Speaker B: Doesn't she say that to Martha? [02:47:19] Speaker C: No, she says that to Rose. [02:47:21] Speaker B: Does she say it to Rose? Yeah, well, Rose didn't have to deal with then. And then there's class. Have any of you guys seen class? [02:47:31] Speaker A: That was the spinoff from last year. [02:47:33] Speaker C: No, the spin off from the second. From Capaldi's second season. [02:47:37] Speaker B: Capaldi definitely shows up in the trailer and it's a late teens high school era. [02:47:43] Speaker C: He shows up in the first episode. And it takes place at Hill school. [02:47:49] Speaker B: Where Ian Chesterton and Barbara Wright, where they both originally worked. Not with their characters, obviously, but where they worked in the. [02:47:57] Speaker C: I mean, and we've talked about how Coal Hill school is kind of a recurring location. Clara and Danny both taught there. Remembrance of the Daleks, which is a 7th Doctor story takes place know. And so it's well steeped in Doctor sort of fixed space, fixed point in time and space. And it's alien stuff. One of the main characters is an alien, kind of like an alien prince, foreign exchange student here on Earth. And they've got, honestly, I can't remember if it was a foreign exchange student or they're like seeking refuge, like an exile sort of situation, like an exile or from war. And then one of the teachers is like their chaperone, but she's being punished. She doesn't really like the kid and so her punishment is to protect the kid. I think it was kind of intended to be like a buffy the vampire slayer in the universe. [02:49:03] Speaker B: That sounds so wonderful. But it has one season and it was canceled. [02:49:08] Speaker A: Sounds like we got a crossover. [02:49:10] Speaker B: Mitch and Molly, if you are listening. [02:49:13] Speaker A: Hello. [02:49:13] Speaker B: Hello. Thanks for getting this far. Okay. [02:49:17] Speaker C: Also, make sure you watch class. [02:49:19] Speaker B: Yeah, make sure you watch got. We've got all those extra ancillary things. And then are there any episodes that we didn't get to talk about? [02:49:29] Speaker C: I regularly go back to the Pandorica opens and the big bang. They are just, to me, they're just exquisite. We get the payoff for Rory's long unrequited love for Amy. We get more river. [02:49:49] Speaker A: Always good. [02:49:49] Speaker C: I'm always here for more river. [02:49:51] Speaker B: Definitely. [02:49:52] Speaker C: We get some things in these two episodes that are going to pay off in the next season. There's just so much good stuff. [02:50:03] Speaker B: And it's the introduction of the fez. [02:50:05] Speaker C: Yes, I have a fez. I love the fez. And I always cry in these. [02:50:12] Speaker B: Brian. [02:50:14] Speaker A: I kind of covered mine. [02:50:16] Speaker C: The lodger and closing time. [02:50:19] Speaker B: Closing time. Also known as the return. [02:50:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Return of Craig. [02:50:25] Speaker B: I love the Doctor can speak baby and dad skills motif that comes up from time to time. Did you talk about Sarah James? [02:50:32] Speaker A: Because he talked about that he has kids. [02:50:37] Speaker C: Which was at least one grandchild. [02:50:39] Speaker B: At least one grandchild. Really quick, Dave, what are you reading right now? [02:50:47] Speaker C: Currently? Well. [02:50:49] Speaker B: Oh, wait. My episode is the guy with the episodes of the gas mask. They're freaking great. Blink. And that one are terrifying. Are you my mummy? [02:50:57] Speaker C: I'm looking for a blonde. A specific one. I didn't just wake up with a craving. Okay. I've recently read engines of War, which is a war Doctor novel by George Mann. [02:51:07] Speaker B: That's awesome. [02:51:08] Speaker C: It is excellent. I also have recently read the diaries of River Song. [02:51:15] Speaker B: How was it? [02:51:16] Speaker C: A bunch of short stories. Just adorable and sweet, but so good. So good. We get some things paid off that are referred to in episodes. [02:51:27] Speaker B: But you said you were about to read something River Song related. Yes. [02:51:31] Speaker C: On my summer stack is the Doctor's lives and times, which is kind of in universe. It's like River's doctoral thesis. Gotcha. She interviews former companions, goes on the digs, does the archaeology stuff. [02:51:50] Speaker B: Of course. She is an archaeologist. [02:51:51] Speaker C: Right. And it is so cool looking, and I just couldn't resist it. And I'm like, okay, I got to deal with that. [02:51:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And then you're in the middle of. [02:52:00] Speaker C: I've just started reading the catcher was a spy, the story of Mo Berg by a guy named Nick Davidoff. Not Doctor who related, but super cool. It's about a baseball player from the. Named Mo Berg who was recruited by. He was a terrible baseball player, but he was super Brilliant. Spoke like a dozen languages. [02:52:23] Speaker B: Wow. [02:52:24] Speaker C: True story. Yes, completely. [02:52:27] Speaker A: Yeah. This isn't a comic book thing. [02:52:30] Speaker C: He was recruited by the pirate book. Right. He was recruited by the OSS, the office of Strategic Services, which was like the precursor to the CIA as a spy, to go. [02:52:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:52:43] Speaker C: And there's a film version coming out, like in the fall, I think, starring Paul Rudd. So I'm super excited about. The trailer is out. Check it out. It looks awesome. And let's see. I've recently read Earth one, Green Lantern. It was super cool. Had some things I did not expect. [02:53:01] Speaker B: Cool. [02:53:02] Speaker A: Justice League dark, I think you mentioned. [02:53:03] Speaker C: I did. I've got the first two issue or the first two collections of Justice League dark from the new 52. Excited about those. I hear good things. Yeah. I'm intrigued. I'm going to get the dvd. Oh, cool. The animated. [02:53:18] Speaker B: Did I tell you that Amir and I went to go watch the suicide Squad animated film? [02:53:24] Speaker C: I'm sure it was terrible. [02:53:25] Speaker B: Oh, it was wonderful. And yes, terrible. Utterly terrible. [02:53:29] Speaker C: Batman have sex with anybody he shouldn't have? [02:53:31] Speaker B: No. [02:53:32] Speaker A: Everybody. [02:53:32] Speaker C: What? [02:53:33] Speaker B: No, he was not really? In it. [02:53:37] Speaker C: Oh, that's good. [02:53:39] Speaker B: So I guess it was too busy having sex with everybody. [02:53:42] Speaker C: That's a reference to the killing joke film, which was. [02:53:45] Speaker B: Took some liberties. [02:53:47] Speaker C: Yeah, that's one way to put some brand new liberties. [02:53:50] Speaker B: Took some liberties. Took those liberties to bed. Anyway. Yeah, that movie wasn't the only thing that was. Anyway, what do you got going on, Bryce? So I just got a new bookshelf. [02:54:09] Speaker C: Congratulations. [02:54:10] Speaker B: Because I actually. I got a new shelf, which means I get to move my gaming systems all onto the shelf so I can start organizing the stacks of books I have sitting all around my bedroom. [02:54:22] Speaker A: Okay. [02:54:22] Speaker B: There's this old anime called read or die, and it opens with a girl who is maneuvering through her bedroom, stepping over, like, stacks of books that she's just got piled up. That's kind of what my bedroom looks like right now. I have so many books, and of course, every time I see new books, I buy new books. [02:54:42] Speaker C: That's the same problem. [02:54:43] Speaker B: I recently bought a dinosaur book, which I was really excited because it's a Doctor who dinosaur book. [02:54:51] Speaker C: Really? [02:54:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:54:52] Speaker B: I have that affinity for these old Doctor who. [02:54:56] Speaker C: Is it an adaptation? [02:54:57] Speaker B: No, I think it's either an adaptation or original story, but it's a novel. Okay. And I think it's like something simple like Doctor who and the dinosaurs or something like that. And it's got a big green. Very vaguely anatomically accurate. And by that I mean, like the 70s version of what a Trex should look like. [02:55:20] Speaker C: That's not where I thought that was going. [02:55:21] Speaker B: Oh, no. It just happens to have, like, a Trex on it. Like how old trexes were drawn versus how current. [02:55:31] Speaker C: Might it be invasion of the dinosaurs? [02:55:34] Speaker B: It might be invasion of the dinosaurs. Let me see the COVID Well, that's. [02:55:37] Speaker C: The new cover video. Hang on. [02:55:41] Speaker B: So I got that. And then I have Doctor who and the Cybermen. And I believe they're both either seventy s or eighty s, given that their logos are there. Yes, that is the book. [02:55:51] Speaker C: Yes. [02:55:52] Speaker A: They just pulled it up on the Amazon. [02:55:55] Speaker C: Doctor who and the dinosaur invasion. An adaptation of the story, the third Doctor story written by Malcolm Hulk. [02:56:03] Speaker B: Right on. Well, I just got that. [02:56:05] Speaker A: It's pretty happy to. [02:56:06] Speaker B: And the Somarilon. And I'm definitely not going to dig into that one anytime soon because I'm in the middle of, like, five other books. But I have a small stack on my nightstand of comics and books. And then I've got a few books actually on my mattress itself that when I go to bed every night, I look over and I go's got a problem. Which 01:00 a.m.. I reading. And I pick one up and I get through enough till I fall asleep, and I get through maybe six, seven pages a night. And that's how I've been reading lately because I've been working twelve and 16 hours days, and I just got over pneumonia. [02:56:40] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [02:56:41] Speaker B: I just finished Gurn Logon. Okay, so there's. [02:56:44] Speaker C: That's easy for you to say. [02:56:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:56:46] Speaker B: There's an anime. [02:56:47] Speaker A: You're just making up words now. There's an anime called thank you. [02:56:52] Speaker B: There's an anime called Gurren Logon, and I finished it anyway. [02:56:59] Speaker C: What about you, B Ron? [02:57:00] Speaker A: Brian. [02:57:00] Speaker B: Brian, please. [02:57:01] Speaker A: I don't know. [02:57:02] Speaker B: What do we talk? [02:57:04] Speaker A: I started the audiobook Star wars the last shot, which is kind of the lead into the new Han solo movie. [02:57:10] Speaker B: Who's reading it? Do you know? [02:57:12] Speaker A: There's three readers on it? So check it out. Check this out. So the main story happens three years, three to four years after. It's a horrible dj. Don't DJ YouTube retire or just stick to the clicks. It's fine. Boom. I resurrected DJ. [02:57:32] Speaker B: Can we hit the button? [02:57:34] Speaker A: Actually, he'll want the button. Everybody loves DJ YouTube. We'll explain that later. Here we go. Thank you. That's for Bryce, apparently. So, last shot. There's three main stories in it that's read by three different readers. The main story happens about three to four years after Return of the Jedi. The New Republic's starting to do their thing, and then Lando comes up. He's like, the first scene with Han hits him, and he's like, I probably deserve that, but what the hell? He's like, dude, you screwed me over. Some dude tried to assassinate me because you did something with the Falcon when it was still under my name. [02:58:15] Speaker B: Oh, no. [02:58:16] Speaker A: So it flashes back to young Lando stuff and then young Han solo stuff separately, but everything's read by a different reader. [02:58:24] Speaker C: Tell me the young Lando stuff is read by Donald Glover. [02:58:27] Speaker A: God, I wish. No. One of the readers is really good. One of the readers is not so much. One of the readers is female, which is cool, gives a nice, fresh take to it. But it all kind of leads up to the main story that's going on and kind of the backstory behind it. And it sort of Tarantino's it a little bit. Well, not really, but no, it's a really cool idea. And the Ahsoka book did that a little bit. [02:58:49] Speaker B: Ahsoka likes to take away and be like, here's what's happening with Yoda at this time? Wait, what's happening with. [02:58:55] Speaker A: No. [02:58:55] Speaker B: Obi wan at this time? [02:58:57] Speaker A: No. [02:58:57] Speaker B: Yes. [02:58:58] Speaker A: When? [02:58:58] Speaker B: In the audiobook. What? Yeah, it was these random asides. It did some flashbacks with. Read the book with Rex and with Darth maul and stuff. But there was like, this random scene on Tatooine that had like. [02:59:11] Speaker A: Really? [02:59:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it was in the audiobook specifically. [02:59:15] Speaker A: Okay, I don't. I actually read the book. Read the book? [02:59:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I listened to it actually in one shot. [02:59:20] Speaker C: Oh, that's right. [02:59:21] Speaker B: I went all the way to Oregon. [02:59:23] Speaker A: But anyways, that's kind of what I'm reading right now. And then I'm kind of refreshing with stuff because my girlfriend's going through all my comics like Bryce did, except I bought more in the meantime, so I'm throwing those in too. So now I'm, like, remembering all the stuff that she's freaking out about. He's just got the house of M. And I'm like, oh, yeah, House of. [02:59:39] Speaker B: M is so good. I really hope that that is a direction that the cinematic universe takes. [02:59:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:59:46] Speaker C: Anyways, I think that would be a mistake to introduce the X Men into the MCU, but that's a different podcast. [02:59:51] Speaker B: To introduce them entirely. [02:59:52] Speaker C: Yes, that's fair. [02:59:54] Speaker B: You don't need to introduce the X Men. You just need to introduce Hugh Jackman. That's all I want. I just want cap and Wolverine together. [03:00:02] Speaker C: I still want Hugh Jackman to play Shane. [03:00:05] Speaker B: That'd be really great. [03:00:06] Speaker C: That would be pimp. One thing I forgot to mention, when we did the Wondercon podcast, I mentioned that I had gotten that run of Wonder Woman that I was looking for. Except for issue 72 with the fancy cover. That was the last part of the story. [03:00:23] Speaker A: Yeah. What happened with that? [03:00:24] Speaker C: I got the book. [03:00:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [03:00:27] Speaker C: I got issue 72. Who drew the COVID Brian Boland. [03:00:31] Speaker B: Brian Boland. [03:00:32] Speaker C: Yes. That's the iconic rock platonic ideal of Wonder Woman. [03:00:38] Speaker A: Very cool. Yeah, nice. [03:00:40] Speaker C: So I got that. [03:00:42] Speaker B: Well, we said we were going to talk about it later, so I want to say it really quick. Wolf was in the Peter Cushing Doctor who film. Yes. And it has recently changed. And I think we might have talked about this in the Wondercon episode. We did, but Wondercon. We talked about that. [03:01:02] Speaker C: It was not the Wondercon episode. [03:01:05] Speaker B: Doctor who and the Daleks film is now a film that exists within the Doctor who universe as a film. And there are strong illusions that Peter Cushing's role in rogue one was actually Peter Cushing in the who universe. [03:01:24] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. Thanks to the new novelizations which are written of episodes that are written by Stephen Moffat, that are written by Russell T. Davies, that are written. [03:01:37] Speaker B: That's another aspect of his legacy, is that these people, not just the actors, but many members of the crew, also continue to come back and do work for them. [03:01:45] Speaker A: And they want to, and they're not. [03:01:47] Speaker B: I think that that's the case in many a lot of times. [03:01:50] Speaker A: They're fans to begin with. [03:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah. That's what's going on with Star wars. That's what's going on with Marvel. A lot of what we know and love today in the geek world, these people are coming on because they. [03:02:04] Speaker A: And becoming professionals themselves. [03:02:07] Speaker B: And it's wonderful. Yeah. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. [03:02:11] Speaker A: Wraps it up there. [03:02:12] Speaker B: Wonderful excursion into the who boot. [03:02:20] Speaker C: That is my undying shame. [03:02:25] Speaker B: Sucker. [03:02:26] Speaker A: All right, thanks for joining us again. [03:02:28] Speaker C: Thank you. [03:02:29] Speaker A: Thanks, Bryce and Dave, for joining us again. [03:02:33] Speaker C: My pleasure. [03:02:34] Speaker B: And Dave for joining us again. [03:02:35] Speaker C: Thanks. Shabba and B romp coming over. [03:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having us. And feeding us swedish fish and megastuffed Oreos. [03:02:44] Speaker C: And cake and drinky drinks. [03:02:45] Speaker B: Yes, and cake and drinky drinks. Sorry, we got down jazz hands. Jazz hands. [03:02:55] Speaker A: Down. [03:03:15] Speaker C: That's terrible. [03:03:17] Speaker B: Okay. You're supposed to be here going, it's it. [03:03:21] Speaker A: All right. My bad. [03:03:22] Speaker B: You ruined everything. [03:03:23] Speaker C: To be fair, it didn't take long. [03:03:27] Speaker A: We'll keep that in and we'll put. [03:03:28] Speaker B: That at the end. Bye.